How to counter eagles?

Czech RepublicChristheCo

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Jan 27, 2015
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#1
By civ? or strat?
How do you counter scout in feudal and castle age?
 

SpainSlaiter

Active Member
May 15, 2017
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#2
Dind't play online yet but from watching KotD and applying logic it seems like Militia line have a lot of power in countering eagles as they have bonus damage versus them (one of the games from Viper vs Jordan showed this perfectly), only problem is eagles are faster than militia line, giving them the advantage of possible raiding. For strong civs to make those counters I would say civs with strong infantry units such as maybe aztecs it's what I saw working better, maybe there are couple more

For scouts it's just placing spearmen near your resources, Tatoh got in his youtube channel couple interesting videos giving tips like this one in his series from 0 to 2k where he explains in depth a lot of this concepts
 
Jul 5, 2010
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#3
Archers.

Eagles are flying creatures, so u possible can't hit them with swords... spears are harder to throw.. i belive that arrows can go higher, so definitely archers

 

GermanynC_Andorin

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Oct 22, 2010
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+1
I have to disagree with Vipers "eagles aren't nearly as op as everyone thinks" statement.
This might be true for the god of Age of Empires who tabs out of the game vs 2k4 opponents without pausing, to browse his playlist until he finds a song of his liking, but for us peasants they just seem op. :o-o:ops:
The only reliable option I find so far are m@a (full walling?) which is really predictable to play every single game vs a meso civ. Viper plz help. :sick:
 

United StatesInfluenza

Two handed swordman
Jul 7, 2011
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#8
Eagles are too strong in WK, no question. While castle age eagles are really rarely seen in vanilla aoc, they did have some use if you could surprise your opponent.

While some boost was probably needed (only if accompanied by nerfs to meso civs in other areas) they very obviously went way too far. If almost every single civ, archer and cavalry civ alike, have to mass longswords whenever against a meso civ, something is imbalanced.

For 200 food and 200 gold, you get 5 more hp, 1 more pierce armor which makes it the most heavily pierce armored non-uu castle age melee unit, +1 attack vs cavalry and camel, a huge speed increase from 1.1 to 1.2, are created 3 sec faster, and have their eagle scout predecessor able to be massed in feudal. This much change is so huge and some expert players think it's balanced. Meanwhile no one will even consider increasing average monk conversion duration by 1 second LOL


This is particularly troubling for Aztecs, already the strongest ara 1v1 civ that had no nerf besides 25 seconds to research loom. Mayans at least got a decent nerf. I don't know much about incas, but they need some serious nerf too. Maybe start with their villagers that can farm all day in full plate mail.

Although these are just a few civs and a single unit that needs changes out of the huge amount of other civs and units that need them as well.

The HD devs tried to balance most of these new civs relative to the 3 strongest AOC civs, instead of relative to the 15 other civs and nerfing the top 3, and it leads to all these major balance issues
 

Czech RepublicDraCoNT

Halberdier
Jan 5, 2016
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#10
Eagles are extremely op, dont think that long swordmans are really a counter when they cost far more, need more expensive ups, are way slower and die far easier to xbows/kts/monks/mango or scorps.
 

ArgentinaNicov

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#12

Mexicomalamadre

Active Member
Jul 15, 2014
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#17
Playing agresive with militia line works fine against eagles. People just say, "Bruh, eagles just run and longswords cant catch up". Well, if you atack the enemy with your units, it would be dumb for the enemy to "run away" with his eagles because you are already atacking him in his base.
 

Netherlandsi_no_english

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Sep 16, 2012
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#18
Jul 2, 2013
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#19
Playing agresive with militia line works fine against eagles. People just say, "Bruh, eagles just run and longswords cant catch up". Well, if you atack the enemy with your units, it would be dumb for the enemy to "run away" with his eagles because you are already atacking him in his base.
Yes but your units die to tc fire and his units don't
your units can kill tc fast, eagles can't :!: :!: :!: :!:
 

UnknownMaSmOrRa

Halberdier
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Sep 24, 2012
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#22
Everybody is saying Eagles are OP, so it's got to be true somehow, but I think a big part of it has got to do with the fact that Longswordsman, the eagle's natural counter with an attack bonus of +6, hasn't been used in 15 years and therefore experts are still reluctant to try it.

And the arguments brought up against Longswordsman so far don't really sound very convincing in my opinion...

"Longswords are too expensive" - it's a total of 80 res (60f, 20g) vs 70 res for Eagles (50g, 20). So yeah a bit more expensive but due to their huge attack bonus (+6) plus higher attack, they can be heavily outnumbered and still win fights. And thats still much cheaper than trying to counter eagles with knights, which is what most experts seem to be trying at the moment.

"Longswords are too expensive to upgrade" - well, m@a + longsword upgrade costs a total of 300f, 110g if I'm not mistaken. Eagle warrior upgrade costs 200f, 200g. So again, roughly the same amount of resources.

"Longswords don't work vs Incas cause Incas have Slingers" - But slingers die miserably vs archers don't they? So that's just the counter unit circle working properly: Eagles > Crossbows > Slingers > Longswords > Eagles etc.

Again I'm not by any means claiming to know any better than the top experts, if literally everybody is complaining about Eagles then there must be some truth to it. I just wish people wouldn't dismiss its natural counter right away without extensively trying it...
 

MexicoSouFire

Well-Known Member
Mar 11, 2011
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#23
You aren't taking into consideration the fact that you can gather gold faster than food, so it is easier to mass ew at the early stages, also the raiding factor, militia line is just too slow to catch them, kths work better but you might end up outnumbered eventually vs a cost effective unit.

An Aztec klew is now way more powerful than before, with this balance change we are going back to 2004 times where aztec wars was just fc and ew spam, but to be honest it is really hard to balance eagles, either way you revert the changes and make castle eagles useless again or keep them as they are, the eagle warrior was merely done for team games and in my experience it didn't work they can't compete vs a bloodlines civ, so eagle warrior affects more the 1x1 meta, if you add few monks to them there aren't much counters for them.
 
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#25
I think there's a few issues that aren't necessarily directly related to the strength of the eagle unit that makes going eagles a strong choice. Most civs don't want to tech into longswords as a long game plan, where as most meso civs do want to tech eagles. Food eco requires more effort to set up than gold eco. Longswords are easier to counter than eagles and really only have one purpose. Eagles are a good unit for controlling the direction and pace of the game while longswords aren't. The burden is often on the non meso civ to find out what the other guy is doing and react.

I think an ok change could be to slightly reduce the bonus eagles get vs cav. No one really goes eagles to counter kts, they just happen to be efficient enough vs knights that you don't have to change tech. Scouts become more useful and kts more viable. This could be enough to make the meso player also want to add pikes or xbows or something to make it a little bit more interesting and more balanced in terms of techs and eco required while also offering the non meso guy a unit path that allows for raiding and map control.
 

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