Hera to stop streaming AoE2/4, decides to focus on League of Legends

[rbase96]

Which is the biggest fiasco?
Hera LoL streaming career
Nili whole aoe tournament coordinator conflict of interest/N4C
Golden League

Is golden league a fiasco? You can argue that the prize pool is a bit high for the viewer number but EGCTV put a lot of their own money in it. The production is really good from what i've seen, especially given the still limited capabilities of the spectating tool in aoe4. I'm sure everyone would be estatic
about it if it was aoe2

 

[Tarsiz]

If you listen to his thoughts afterwards he said he and Microsoft talked about the event and started planning before deciding to make it AoE4. So yes, following his track record with the NACs it is very reasonable to assume that he could get significantly more viewers (at the time of starting, i.e. before deciding on the game). After that it was obviously very unfortunate that AoE4 did not turn out the way he and Microsoft apparently hoped.



This is not corruption

That is 100% a conflict of interest and that is something that is very heavily frowned upon at Microsoft (employees literally have to attend trainings on that), so it's very odd and concerning that Nili is able to do that.

 

[MaSmOrRa]

it's really mind boggling how people can think, that a private company allocating promotional funds for a new game to the employee that has the most experience with organizing tournaments(promotional events) for similar games is corruption.

This is a bit misleading because you make it sound like the person allocating the funds and the person receiving them is not one and the same, which is obviously what people are criticizing.

Regardless of the merits (or lack thereof) of the corruption accusation - I personally don't think it is, but that's mostly because I know Nili and I like him -, I don't think it makes sense to try to portray this as a "there's nothing to see here" situation.
Especially when Nili himself has admitted this is a clear conflict of interest.

 

[MyRegalTip]

That is 100% a conflict of interest and that is something that is very heavily frowned upon at Microsoft (employees literally have to attend trainings on that), so it's very odd and concerning that Nili is able to do that.

I would be very surprised that anyone at MS is that worried about the conflict unless is really became a public image issue for them. My guess is that MS has no interest in investing in these 'community positions' as traditional employees, they'll do it in the same they 'developed' the forgotten civs for HD- just count on the community to do it and benefit from it until it becomes too problematic, then they'll drop it.

 

[Influenza]

That is 100% a conflict of interest and that is something that is very heavily frowned upon at Microsoft (employees literally have to attend trainings on that), so it's very odd and concerning that Nili is able to do that.

Just to add on a bit to your point here, the conflict of interest occurred when nili was simply hired to distribute funds for aoe tournaments and operates as the tournament organizer while hosting tournaments himself, corruption occurred when he allocated such an undue amount of those funds to himself

 

[dodageka]

Just to add on a bit to your point here, the conflict of interest occurred when nili was simply hired to distribute funds for aoe tournaments and operates as the tournament organizer while hosting tournaments himself, corruption occurred when he allocated such an undue amount of those funds to himself

Again, nothing in this context is corruption. There obviously are potentially conflicting interests but the fact that Nili allocated funds to his own tournament is not corruption. Also, it is very clear that Microsoft/Worlds Edge was aware of his decision beforehand and they clearly didn’t not intervene, indicating that they don’t find the interests conflicting - which also makes sense, as one of the most successful AoE2 tournament hosts heavily promoting AoE4 seems to be very much in line with Microsoft’s interests

 

[Influenza]

Again, nothing in this context is corruption. There obviously are potentially conflicting interests but the fact that Nili allocated funds to his own tournament is not corruption. Also, it is very clear that Microsoft/Worlds Edge was aware of his decision beforehand and they clearly didn’t not intervene, indicating that they don’t find the interests conflicting - which also makes sense, as one of the most successful AoE2 tournament hosts heavily promoting AoE4 seems to be very much in line with Microsoft’s interests

Please actually read and understand my comment before responding. What I had said is not simply about him allocating money to his own tournament, but the amount. There was no precedence for such an exorbitant award to a single tournament. Both the player base and viewer base of AoE4 sharply declined since its release, making the success of a large LAN tournament highly speculative at best. You have to admit, there is at least the appearance of corruption here.

And sorry, but I don't consider "It's not corruption cuz he got away with it" a good argument. Nor do I consider "I like nili and we have the same flag on aoezone" a good argument. Compared to the entirety of microsoft gaming, 100k is a drop in the bucket and is unlikely to be missed.

Taking a step back, based on an explanation I found, him personally benefitting in any capacity is considered corruption, so his appointment + continued hosting of microsoft funded tournaments can be easily argued as corrupt. So it's a corrupt arrangement through and through.

 

[SuperskinnyBLS]

It wouldn't have been a conflict of interest if Nili had organised aoe 2 tournament
(ง ͠° ͟ل͜ ͡°)ง

 

[dodageka]

Please actually read and understand my comment before responding. What I had said is not simply about him allocating money to his own tournament, but the amount. There was no precedence for such an exorbitant award to a single tournament. Both the player base and viewer base of AoE4 sharply declined since its release, making the success of a large LAN tournament highly speculative at best. You have to admit, there is at least the appearance of corruption here.

And sorry, but I don't consider "It's not corruption cuz he got away with it" a good argument. Nor do I consider "I like nili and we have the same flag on aoezone" a good argument. Compared to the entirety of microsoft gaming, 100k is a drop in the bucket and is unlikely to be missed.

Taking a step back, based on an explanation I found, him personally benefitting in any capacity is considered corruption, so his appointment + continued hosting of microsoft funded tournaments can be easily argued as corrupt. So it's a corrupt arrangement through and through.

The planning for N4C started in spring 2021 and in the fall it was decided to be AoE4, both well before the low viewer numbers could have been foreseen. Afaik there is no data available on the amount of Microsoft funding that went into the last Hidden Cup, the Red Bulls, and N4C so we don’t know whether the amount is unprecedented (or are these values somewhere public?).

I am not saying it’s not corruption because he got away with it, I am saying it’s not corruption because he told everybody that he was going to give money to his own tournaments beforehand and people at Microsoft still wanted him

 

[Influenza]

The planning for N4C started in spring 2021 and in the fall it was decided to be AoE4, both well before the low viewer numbers could have been foreseen. Afaik there is no data available on the amount of Microsoft funding that went into the last Hidden Cup, the Red Bulls, and N4C so we don’t know whether the amount is unprecedented (or are these values somewhere public?).

I am not saying it’s not corruption because he got away with it, I am saying it’s not corruption because he told everybody that he was going to give money to his own tournaments beforehand and people at Microsoft still wanted him

HC4 is listed at 57k. Assuming microsoft funded all of the prizes for both RBW 5 and N4C, I find it difficult to justify nili elevating his brand to the same level as Red Bull, but that's just me i guess.

If he told microsoft in advance that he was going to pocket all future prize money, not host any tournaments whatsoever and just enrich himself and microsoft still wanted him, would that mean it's not corruption? Or perhaps there's something more to corruption than the apparent complicity of the company?

 

[robo]

HC4 is listed at 57k.

Contributions

Microsoft = $75,000

From Microsoft's contribution $60,000 will be used towards the prize pool and the remaining amount will cover costs & promotions for the event and ensure all parties involved in HC4 get paid for their work.

 

[malamadre]

Is golden league a fiasco? You can argue that the prize pool is a bit high for the viewer number but EGCTV put a lot of their own money in it. The production is really good from what i've seen, especially given the still limited capabilities of the spectating tool in aoe4. I'm sure everyone would be estatic
about it if it was aoe2

Yes it is. EGC invested like 60k from his pocket. He also invested time and effort. Just to have 2.5k viewers? Hera, Viper and T90 had those numbers in a normal day investing nothing. Memb gets half those numbers playing BF. So yeah terrible ROI, terrible investment of resources for the retuen he is getting. Total fiasco

 

[Brlr716]

Yes it is. EGC invested like 60k from his pocket. He also invested time and effort. Just to have 2.5k viewers? Hera, Viper and T90 had those numbers in a normal day investing nothing. Memb gets half those numbers playing BF. So yeah terrible ROI, terrible investment of resources for the retuen he is getting. Total fiasco

They are what they are because they built their brands for almost a decade. Comparing a newcomer to these legends is kind of funny though no offense.

 

[oozkan]

They are what they are because they built their brands for almost a decade. Comparing a newcomer to these legends is kind of funny though no offense.

I don't think they put 65K investment in a tournament.

On the other hand I feel bad for EGC, at least the guy has chipped in ethical way.

 

[EliteGamingChannel]

Yes it is. EGC invested like 60k from his pocket. He also invested time and effort. Just to have 2.5k viewers? Hera, Viper and T90 had those numbers in a normal day investing nothing. Memb gets half those numbers playing BF. So yeah terrible ROI, terrible investment of resources for the retuen he is getting. Total fiasco

Lol. How do you know how much I've put in from my pocket? I'm not even sure how much I've invested from my pocket. You seem to be the authority on my pockets though, so I'll take your word for it.

Last weekend the peak viewership was 12.5k, of which 5.5k was on EGCTV. Sure it's a $125k event, but that was week 3 of a 10 week event and not in the elite stage yet. Viewership is up exponentially week-on-week, average view time is 93 minutes, subs and community support are at an all time high and more than we saw during Genesis.

Hera, Viper and T90 had those numbers in a normal day investing nothing.

This shows a significant lack of knowledge on what 'investing' is. I reckon these guys have what 20 years combined streaming experience between them? Significantly more even? That's an investment, and a very significant one at that. EGC had 2,000 followers and a CCV of 250 9 months ago. So I'd say we've so far achieved an excellent return on investment.

Of course, I'm very biased, and one man's long term growth is another's 'fiasco'. But apparently seeing as I've, according to you ,gained the ability to sink $60k from my own pocket into an e-sports tournament, I must have done something right somewhere along the way.

On a serious note. If you want to view Golden League as a failure and fiasco it's 100% your right, and I genuinely appreciate that. People have different views on what represents success and failure. But when you're stating viewership and finances as a fact, when they're immediately and provably not only untrue but dramatically out of touch with reality, it just shows it to be malicious trolling.

 

[LowEloNobody]

Yes it is. EGC invested like 60k from his pocket. He also invested time and effort. Just to have 2.5k viewers? Hera, Viper and T90 had those numbers in a normal day investing nothing. Memb gets half those numbers playing BF. So yeah terrible ROI, terrible investment of resources for the retuen he is getting. Total fiasco

I would be highly surprised if the entire business plan from EGCTV was "Host one giant tournament -> instant profit"

I would (guess) it is more about building a brand within the AoE4 community, and then capitalizing on that brand in the coming years not weeks.

That takes a serious level of commitment and investment, but I don't see any other major players in the AoE4 space at the moment, so there is no reason it can't work.

If you look at what T90 was known to have been making from Twitch alone, you could easily support a small professional org in AoE4 with that kind of idea

 

[ltm]

A lot of copium involved with AOE4

 

[malamadre]

Lol. How do you know how much I've put in from my pocket? I'm not even sure how much I've invested from my pocket. You seem to be the authority on my pockets though, so I'll take your word for it.

Last weekend the peak viewership was 12.5k, of which 5.5k was on EGCTV. Sure it's a $125k event, but that was week 3 of a 10 week event and not in the elite stage yet. Viewership is up exponentially week-on-week, average view time is 93 minutes, subs and community support are at an all time high and more than we saw during Genesis.


This shows a significant lack of knowledge on what 'investing' is. I reckon these guys have what 20 years combined streaming experience between them? Significantly more even? That's an investment, and a very significant one at that. EGC had 2,000 followers and a CCV of 250 9 months ago. So I'd say we've so far achieved an excellent return on investment.

Of course, I'm very biased, and one man's long term growth is another's 'fiasco'. But apparently seeing as I've, according to you ,gained the ability to sink $60k from my own pocket into an e-sports tournament, I must have done something right somewhere along the way.

On a serious note. If you want to view Golden League as a failure and fiasco it's 100% your right, and I genuinely appreciate that. People have different views on what represents success and failure. But when you're stating viewership and finances as a fact, when they're immediately and provably not only untrue but dramatically out of touch with reality, it just shows it to be malicious trolling.

It was a generalization, i dont know how much you spent but Dave said something like MS-Nili doubled what you (an individual with a tournament idea) could raise. I imagine you got plently sponsors. But to my point is the same, they invested money and they expect a return.

Anyways I wasnt expecting you to read that but that is my opinion and i guess thats rough to read.

But my point stands, if I was in your shoes. For a bigger increment in viewership for the channel and a overall return you could have hosted a golden league in aoe2 and you would be getting triple the views with the same effort. You could even try to fill the void left by the 4 of the biggest streamers in the platform.

At the end i just asked for opinions and if you are satisfied with your own work then be happy and dont read and respond to these threads, it it obvious we exagerate and we are in fact not experts in the topic of your channel success.

 

[malamadre]

I would be highly surprised if the entire business plan from EGCTV was "Host one giant tournament -> instant profit"

I would (guess) it is more about building a brand within the AoE4 community, and then capitalizing on that brand in the coming years not weeks.

That takes a serious level of commitment and investment, but I don't see any other major players in the AoE4 space at the moment, so there is no reason it can't work.

If you look at what T90 was known to have been making from Twitch alone, you could easily support a small professional org in AoE4 with that kind of idea

Zak tried that with Escape org in aoe2 and he failed. A bigger game with a caring and old community. I would have my doubts.
Influencers move the world now not faceless organizations.

 

[Adico]

Influencers move the world now not faceless organizations.

Influencers (content creators, players, coaches, umbrella term for people with "influence") have always been the key in esports, they eventually build orgs to make sure they can maximize their involvement in the industry for profit & long term stability (skills perish, interests do not). They are two sides of the same coin.

• Team Liquid was a clan that then became a business in 2000.
• Fnatic was created by a player 2004.
• Team Secret, 2014.
• 100 Thieves, 2017.
• Moist Esports, 2021.

If you want something outside of players/Teams, many of the current leading PR & Talent agencies in the space were started by industry professionals that eventually pivoted to that marketing side.
____
I know this is just a part of your overall position, just want to give a bit more context, since a lot of people think "orgs are dead" when in reality they were always a major component in esports and are often made up of incredibly passionate and talented people.

 

[winterbike]

A lot of copium involved with AOE4

It's a garbage game that robbed us of a full year of great AOE2 content. Went from the incredible Redbull Wololo 5 to.... Hera quitting, Larry going AWOL, MBL missing, Viper's stream going to ****, HC4 disappearing, and NC4 being a shitshow no one wanted.

Disappointing.

 

[malamadre]

Influencers (content creators, players, coaches, umbrella term for people with "influence") have always been the key in esports, they eventually build orgs to make sure they can maximize their involvement in the industry for profit & long term stability (skills perish, interests do not). They are two sides of the same coin.

• Team Liquid was a clan that then became a business in 2000.
• Fnatic was created by a player 2004.
• Team Secret, 2014.
• 100 Thieves, 2017.
• Moist Esports, 2021.

If you want something outside of players/Teams, many of the current leading PR & Talent agencies in the space were started by industry professionals that eventually pivoted to that marketing side.
____
I know this is just a part of your overall position, just want to give a bit more context, since a lot of people think "orgs are dead" when in reality they were always a major component in esports and are often made up of incredibly passionate and talented people.

Seems to me those aren't faceless organizations...

 

[Tempires]

Hera just posted video about new DLC

 

[jagsfan515]

Yes it is. EGC invested like 60k from his pocket. He also invested time and effort. Just to have 2.5k viewers? Hera, Viper and T90 had those numbers in a normal day investing nothing. Memb gets half those numbers playing BF. So yeah terrible ROI, terrible investment of resources for the retuen he is getting. Total fiasco

Well it's unfortunate the game wasn't in a complete state before tournaments like the golden league were scheduled and planned for.

 

[lecracheursagacite]

Well it's unfortunate the game wasn't in a complete state before tournaments like the golden league were scheduled and planned for.

This condition is something people planning for these tournaments could have expected before they started planning for them.