AOE-II DE Has the game becoume way more "tryhard?"

[Paint]

So I started up the game again after not playing for some months to have some chill games and just noticed that people have gotten way more try hard.

I have seen multiple 1200 Elo players "out micro" Arches with and without ballistics, scouts blocking villagers trying to get to the TC and Wall FC is the meta in most of my games, whenever I build a dock there is a scout close by trying to snipe my villager on 4 lakes. This used to be a thing when I played at the 1500 Elo level (thats why I usually stoped playing when I got above 1450) but now that I am 1200 trash and still see it everywhere.

 

[Bandana_]

nah, the game is just evolving

 

[Huehuecoyotl22]

I also only play a few games every few months, and the level I have reached so far is ~1k3-1k4 in about 60 rated 1v1 games.
1k3 rated players on DE definitely commonly do these things, which did not happen at 1k7 level on Voobly 5-7 years ago.
The more time progresses, the more what is common changes. In the past that level also rarely pushed deer, while now below 1k rated players often do it.

 

[A B C 1]

Maybe people have gotten better, but not that much. I've been stagnating between 1k3 and 1k4 for a year. Don't play enough to improve my skills and I haven't dropped in rating either. I still have some of the same weaknesses, eg.not knowing build orders.

The game changed a bit because of balance changes and map generation/selection. If your strength as a player lies in lategame macro, then ranked has definitely become harder for you. Ranked plays more into classic Arabia skills now.

Re: Deer luring, that has just become way easier on the more open Arabia script.

 

[USC_kiky]

By the way, it could also mean that there are not many new bloods coming. The 1.2k "noobies", are the 20-year veterans like you

 

[kw1k000000]

How real is the rating distribution shown here >> https://ratings.aoe2.se/

I find it hard to believe that even at 2200 TG rating you are at 92% percentile meaning only 8% of players are better than you. I would definitely consider myself an average player (was 1.7-1.8k during voobly days) but 92% percentile feels like an over exaggeration.

 

[IYIyTh]

Game is dumbed down. With all of the nerfs to defensive play and buff to early aggression Drush/m@a timing and you're basically 1500.

 

[kw1k000000]

Game is dumbed down. With all of the nerfs to defensive play and buff to early aggression Drush/m@a timing and you're basically 1500.

even if that logic is true, it applies to everyone. Elo is relative measure.

I don’t think I’m pro but at TG 2200 I would have expected it to be at average and not at 92%

 

[Plappertfan]

even if that logic is true, it applies to everyone. Elo is relative measure.

I don’t think I’m pro but at TG 2200 I would have expected it to be at average and not at 92%

TG means literally nothing. Just nothing.

 

[kw1k000000]

TG means literally nothing. Just nothing.

I agree and that's why it's hilarious when people bring up sacredness of TG ELO for forcing people to play weird maps

 

[Fun_Sponge]

sometimes i think this too, but then i remember i play like a dumpster fire.

 

[dodageka]

I think a lot has to do with streaming and the relative ease of executing individual elements copied from top players (for example archer micro to a certain extent is a purely mechanical task that can be easily practiced; the hard part is to know when to do it and when not). I think these things trickle down to lower Elos that quickly because they largely don’t improve the game (archer micro doesn’t help when everything else is still potato) but makes people feel more pro, hence they focus their time on this and not things that might be more beneficial

 

[Hunyadi_]

Yeah it's literally a hamster wheel though. ELO I mean. This is why players try hard, to get a higher ELO. But what they don't realize is that it just gives them harder opponents. Tryharding only leads to even more tryharding because, well, the opponents just get harder the higher you climb on the ladder. It's like a hamster wheel, the faster you run, the faster the wheel spins. But you're still not going anywhere.

 

[Faultier321]

Im usually 1500 and when i had some tryhard phases in 1v1 this year - for short period of time - climbed up to 16++ and into the top 2000 of the ladder.
I played on Voobly before DE, where i was mostly 17xx (sometimes 16xx, few times 18++), and back then after a while I actually knew many of my opponents, because there simply were not that many players on my level, especially because i prefered opponents from Europe or at least US for less lag.

Nowadays in the ladder it feels like i rarely face an oppopnent twice, so i think there are many more Players at this "advanced" level.

What annoys me the most is still Teamgames. I have two IRL friends (maybe around 12-1300), with who I play ona regular Basis, so we que up for 3v3. Often times we get Arabia, and it used to be our favourite map. Right now, one of my friends always asks me to ban Arabia, mostly for one reason:

In a 3v3 Arabia on DE ladder, you will play against Britons, Mayans and Franks.

The pocket civ might be Lithuanians or Magyars in some cases, but its always going to be this disgusting combo of cheaper archers that produce faster on one Flank and and better Crossbows that produce faster on the other.
Sometimes we can punish it by going heavy man at arms agression, but many times it fails aswell and in any case you are at a disadvantage except you pick exactly the same civs.

The worst thing about is that for this reason all 3 of us ALWAYS select random civilisations, and because you need majority for random civs, we still have to fight against the same civs all the time, because no one has the f*** balls to even select random civs (excuse the strong language). That, to me, is the definition of tryharding.

 

[Faultier321]

Also, laming (especially stealing sheep) on Voobly was regarded as bad behaviour, nowadays it seems like the standard meta game for 1300s on DE

 

[IYIyTh]

m@a are always worth the investment now. Even when your opponent walls they are investing a few mins in idle time just to do it plus the cost of wood. You paid for your rax and a couple hundred for your m@a + rax, but that also starts you off on wood you won't need to for an advanced military building in the next age. Meanwhile your opponent, who needs to boom in order to take advantage of not making military -- has spent additional wood and idle time -- so it's unlikely they have sufficient wood for up buildings, farms to get up, etc. -- certainly not upgrades even if they do manage to get up by some miracle.

Pre mill Drush virtually guarantees getting in before walls are up.
M@a into archers is a pretty simple build to learn and will cause far more damage in idle/repairing/wood cost than any benefit gained.

There is no advantage to playing defensive, so unless you play incredibly poorly -- you should do just fine learning the above two builds. If they play into skirms, the whole benefit allegedly gained is lost and your economy is now superior.

 

[HelloWorld]

Yeah it's literally a hamster wheel though. ELO I mean. This is why players try hard, to get a higher ELO. But what they don't realize is that it just gives them harder opponents. Tryharding only leads to even more tryharding because, well, the opponents just get harder the higher you climb on the ladder. It's like a hamster wheel, the faster you run, the faster the wheel spins. But you're still not going anywhere.

Even after winning the rat race, you are still a rat .

 

[HongeyKong]

even if that logic is true, it applies to everyone. Elo is relative measure.

I don’t think I’m pro but at TG 2200 I would have expected it to be at average and not at 92%

17/18+ 1v1 was also like top 10% on Voobly.
https://www.reddit.com/r/aoe2/comments/cgyu6a/voobly_elo_distribution/
There were a lot more casuals in NPL.

 

[derpina276]

I feel like you always had chilled out people and tryhards anywhere on the ladder. But maybe the microstandards are becoming a bit higher.

I can guarantee you though that at 1200 level this kind of micro is 90% of the time a case of overmicroing. And just focussing on macro should win you the game.

(Denying the docking vill sux though 11)

 

[Progeusz]

better than me = tryhard
worse than me = noob

never gets old 11

 

[Tocaraca]

I agree with Paint. All my opponents are super tryhard no-lifes nowadays. Can't I just chill and make unique units? Smh

 

[Lokalo]

I agree with Paint. All my opponents are super tryhard no-lifes nowadays. Can't I just chill and make unique units? Smh

I honestly can't understand if is a troll message or a serious one xd Like you can chill as much as you want, just gotta drop enough elo to do so... Or if you don't like an opponent can kill your villager, just go play against AI, although nowadays even extreme AI sometimes does drush, so not that chill

 

[Tocaraca]

I honestly can't understand if is a troll message or a serious one xd Like you can chill as much as you want, just gotta drop enough elo to do so... Or if you don't like an opponent can kill your villager, just go play against AI, although nowadays even extreme AI sometimes does drush, so not that chill

Mostly troll lol

 

[fluppets]

It's definitely gotten more tryhard, but that's not a bad thing, people are just getting better.

 

[Beanslinger]

Im a big fan of random civ but I dont mind people picking. I just wish they would pick other civs