Empire Wars
The upcoming Red Bull Wololo Tournament will be using Empire Wars settings, and as such I wanted to see which civs would lose and benefit the most economically from this start. I will compare civs to their standard game bonuses not a generic civ without eco bonuses.
Some +"x" -"x" resource civ bonuses are negated (chinese, mayans, huns), all free "x" upgrade at feudal still work, ethiopians still get their res for feudal.
Ranked from biggest losers to biggest winners (I assumed food is a more desired resource and a very rough resource collection rate of 20 res/min). Please provide feedback!
The Start
26 villager feudal start (normally 730 seconds / 12:10 game-time from making 23 vills + loom + feudal age)
3 lumber camps
1 mill
1 mining camp
6 houses
1 barracks
1 blacksmith
850 wood in buildings total
2 farms
1 goat under tc, 4 gaia sheep, 0 boar (Red Bull Wololo Arabia)
Eco Losers
Malay -2 vills
Neutral (or Close)
Italians -75f
Byzantines
Goths
Incas
Khmer
Koreans
Magyars
Portuguese
Saracens
Spanish
Tatars
Turks
Vietnamese
Eco Winner
Chinese +1.75 vills - 164 res
Hard to Compare
Cumans
The upcoming Red Bull Wololo Tournament will be using Empire Wars settings, and as such I wanted to see which civs would lose and benefit the most economically from this start. I will compare civs to their standard game bonuses not a generic civ without eco bonuses.
Some +"x" -"x" resource civ bonuses are negated (chinese, mayans, huns), all free "x" upgrade at feudal still work, ethiopians still get their res for feudal.
Ranked from biggest losers to biggest winners (I assumed food is a more desired resource and a very rough resource collection rate of 20 res/min). Please provide feedback!
The Start
26 villager feudal start (normally 730 seconds / 12:10 game-time from making 23 vills + loom + feudal age)
3 lumber camps
1 mill
1 mining camp
6 houses
1 barracks
1 blacksmith
850 wood in buildings total
2 farms
1 goat under tc, 4 gaia sheep, 0 boar (Red Bull Wololo Arabia)
Eco Losers
Malay -2 vills
Feudal age click up takes 78 seconds instead of 130. Malay create extra 2 vills which nearly pay for themselves over 130 seconds of feudal age click up.
Persians -105res -1.46villsLose (730*5%) 36.5s of TC efficiency from 5% TC efficiency bonus in dark age. They lose out on creating an extra 1.46 vills and the resources they'd gather 1.46/2*730s/60s*20 = 178res minus the cost of the villagers.
Japanese -200/250wDon't save wood from eco buildings (although who really needs that 3rd lc). -50w*5.
Celts -169wGather wood -15% faster, (13% due to walking time). Assuming 1300 wood collected by 12:10, 1300w*.13
Mongols -133res-2 boar on empire wars maps. Can't lure deer with bactrian camels/horses (standard on RBW maps).
It takes 100s to eat a boar with 8 generic vills/6 mongol vills. Those 2 mongol vills could be collecting another resource during that time in a standard game. 2 boar*100s/60s*2 villagers*20res/min/villager.
Indians -115fSimple one, vills cost 5 food less in dark age, -5 *23.
Malians -127.5wCan't use bonus for buildings already built 850w*15%.
Neutral (or Close)
Italians -75f
Don't save 75 food clicking up to feudal.
Burmese -80wLate feudal therefore late free double bit axe. Assuming a "standard random map 22 pop" feudal with 8 lumberjacks and a 4w/min collection speed increase from double bit axe. 8*150s/60min*4w/min = 80w
Aztecs -76resGather resources more efficiently due to +5 carry capacity. Assuming an average 2% increase in efficiency and 3800 resources gathered by 12:10. 3800 * 2%.
Mayans -60resRandom map start +1 vill but has to loom immediately to avoid getting housed. Only get +1 vill lead over generic civ when generic researches loom (assume 20 pop, 6:40 game-time). That 1 extra vill would collect ~110 res in the next 5:30 of game time. Empire Wars mayan start is +1 vill +50f. Difference: 60res.
Huns -50wDon't lose -100w at start, but 6 already built houses would have been free. 100-6*25.
Britons -45resOnly 5 sheep per Empire Wars map. Assuming 5 british shepherds gather at the speed of 6 generic ones and the time to gather 1 sheep is 45s. In a standard game, using that extra vill on a different resource would net 8 sheep * (45/60s) * 20 res/min = +120 res. In empire wars we still have 5 sheep so there would only be 5 sheep * (45/60s) * 20 res/min = +75 res, assuming both players take their sheep. 75-120 = -45
Berbers -38resGather resources more efficiently due to 10% faster walking speed. Assuming a 1% increase in efficiency and 3800 resources gathered by 12:10. 3800 * 1%.
Teutons -40wDidn't get to save 40% on 2 pre-built farms.
Vikings <-40resLate feudal therefore late free wheelbarrow. Wheelbarrow adds very little to efficient wood lines/berries/mining camps ~2% but adds 13%+ (2.5f/min) efficiency to farmers. Assuming "standard random map 22 pop" feudal (10:30 game-time) and no more than 8 farms by 27pop. <-40res.
Tatars -30wGet to utilize 47% more food (after rot) from herdables in feudal. With a difference of 300f in sheep missing, lets assume we're losing out on 135f of natural food, about a horse collar farm worth of food. Half the cost of a farm, 30w.
Slavs <-5-24fNegligible loss unless drush fc. Even with drush fc, placing farms at 10 minutes, 8 farmers * 2 min * 1.5 f/min bonus over generic farms = 24f.
EthiopiansStill start with +100f +100g.
LithuaniansStill start with +150f.
Franks25% foraging bonus will likely be utilized in full, but in feudal.
BulgariansByzantines
Goths
Incas
Khmer
Koreans
Magyars
Portuguese
Saracens
Spanish
Tatars
Turks
Vietnamese
Eco Winner
Chinese +1.75 vills - 164 res
Get +200 food, +50 wood, +1.75 vills @ 12:10 (on standard start they're only 1.25 vills ahead of generic since they have to force drop and do loom) vs the ~389 res those additional 1.25 (in dark age)/2.25 (after generic civ does loom) vills would have collected in the 12:10 minutes game-time.
Standard Chinese start (with sheep 5 tiles from tc) timetable
0:00 send sheep in
0:01 loom
0:12 sheep gets killed
0:39 force drop, 1st vill queued
1:06 force drop, 2nd vill queued
1:32 force drop, 3rd vill queued
1:58 sustained vill production @9 vills
Generic civ start
0:25 4 vills
0:50 5 vills
1:15 6 vills
1:40 7 vills
2:05 8 vills
2:30 9 vills
Therefore, standard random map Chinese start is (loom + 32 TC seconds) or (loom + 1.25 vills) ahead of Generic civ in dark age, and 2.25 vills ahead as soon as loom is researched (lets assume 20 pop). We have to account for the resources gathered by the bonus 1.25/2.25 villagers when comparing to Empire Wars. Comparing this to Empire Wars start (+3 vills, +200f, 50w) we get 3 - 1.25 vills + 200f + 50w - (1.25 vills * 730/60 min + 1vill after generic loom * 330/60 min) * 20 res/min = 1.75vills + 200f + 50w - 414 res ≈ +1.75vills - 164 res
0:00 send sheep in
0:01 loom
0:12 sheep gets killed
0:39 force drop, 1st vill queued
1:06 force drop, 2nd vill queued
1:32 force drop, 3rd vill queued
1:58 sustained vill production @9 vills
Generic civ start
0:25 4 vills
0:50 5 vills
1:15 6 vills
1:40 7 vills
2:05 8 vills
2:30 9 vills
Therefore, standard random map Chinese start is (loom + 32 TC seconds) or (loom + 1.25 vills) ahead of Generic civ in dark age, and 2.25 vills ahead as soon as loom is researched (lets assume 20 pop). We have to account for the resources gathered by the bonus 1.25/2.25 villagers when comparing to Empire Wars. Comparing this to Empire Wars start (+3 vills, +200f, 50w) we get 3 - 1.25 vills + 200f + 50w - (1.25 vills * 730/60 min + 1vill after generic loom * 330/60 min) * 20 res/min = 1.75vills + 200f + 50w - 414 res ≈ +1.75vills - 164 res
Hard to Compare
Cumans
With a 20 up, 2 TC boom build you'd have 29 vills by 12:10, producing vills from 2 TC's onward. The build is somewhat situational, defensive, and delays castle. Theoretical largest eco loss.
Last edited: