ECL Streaming Rules Update

Jan 7, 2015
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#51
i remember a game where a streamer paused a game like 5 times because he had to fix streamstuff :poop:
maybe put 3 pauses max like on HD Masterrace :geek:

btw: i really like the change. looking fwd to february and see how and if things change
 

Finlandbuhanisson

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May 29, 2015
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#52
people play worse when they stream dum dum
Most players in practice play worse, because they cant be without commenting on their play or joking with the chat. But that's just a matter of getting used to it and being a bit more professional: turn off the chat display, and stop thinking at all about the fact that you are streaming it. It will probably get very easy very quickly.

Of course, TG tournaments are a bit different since you dont want to reveal your strategies, but streaming 1v1 tournaments POV sounds like a must to anyone really serious about growing their channel. What else then? It's not like the rated games system is currently interesting enough to provide quality content for full-time streaming, and many top players simply dont like community games or casting other ppl.
 
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#55
Any self respecting player who takes the tournament seriously will not stream their POV, simple as that.
What's the relation between self respect and streaming POV? If a player thinks he is capable of winning while streaming PoV, it doesn't make sense to not stream.

So you think the Chinese are winning games without taking the tournament seriously?
 

Chilezuviss

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#56
Most players in practice play worse, because they cant be without commenting on their play or joking with the chat. But that's just a matter of getting used to it and being a bit more professional: turn off the chat display, and stop thinking at all about the fact that you are streaming it. It will probably get very easy very quickly.

Of course, TG tournaments are a bit different since you dont want to reveal your strategies, but streaming 1v1 tournaments POV sounds like a must to anyone really serious about growing their channel. What else then? It's not like the rated games system is currently interesting enough to provide quality content for full-time streaming, and many top players simply dont like community games or casting other ppl.
Well then you have to put in the balance, you want to perform to your best, or you want the best for your twitch channel.

Case in point: DauT, stopped streaming his NAC2 matches, started winning.
 

UnknownCuth

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May 18, 2014
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#57
It has to be said that as per this announcement, you have proved that you are interested in this community. I hope those who were so quick to judge will take just as much time now to thank you for your flexibility and willingness to take other's views into account. I didn't see this coming at all. Wp Zak
Yes, he has definitely improved in that regard. I can only respect that!
 

Chilezuviss

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Mar 14, 2010
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#61
Lol.. he just lost 1 NAC2 match (without admin loss). You can hardly draw a correlation there.
come on you know what i mean, if you watch the games you can tell he definitely plays better without streaming.

and most players would say they do as well (at least the ones ive heard be vocal about this).
 
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#62
We can't forget that stream sniping is also an issue in big tournaments. I remember some very fishy situations during KoTD matches ("weird" and extremely accurate explorations in irregular-generation maps, for example) that can definitely can be avoided by not streaming your POV.
 

Aland Islandskw1k000000

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#63
This change is a really good thing for ECL and community in general. Now players and viewers can enjoy the games as they are happening. This should increase hype around ECL which has been missing.

Whether players should stream POV or not, it’s totally their decision.
 

United Statespatao

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Apr 2, 2016
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#64
Great decision IMO, I understand it's a really hard one, but at least personally I am way more excited for the ECL matches after this change. Now I can reasonably invite my friends to watch Heresy games w/o feeling like a tool (knowing we won) or a loser (knowing we lost) 11.

Sidenote: All this about Vivi & Tim teamspeak is fun, I'm really curious what Vinch & Dench's convo was like when Dench was 200 pop with 12k resources banked, Vinch at 80 pop with 0 res and Dench decided to sling 500f / 500w 11
 

Switzerlandchrummi

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Mar 1, 2018
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#65
Well, looks like im the only one with mixed feelings about that one. Sure, i prefer live games over recs, but i think there are some problems coming from that especially for the escape channel. That change will benefit the streamers who are casting basically all the time (like Memb or Nili) snce they will cast it live and i will watch it on a live channel instead of the escape channel, whereas until now i always watched on the escape channel to support the ones organizing the tournament (as i also do with other tournaments like NAC qualifiers on Nilis channel, Kotd on Membs channel or Hidden Cup on T90s channel).
These casters will most likely not cast the games again on the escape channel, or if they do they will be way less motivated since they already know the results. Also most other casters will know the results even if they didnt cast the games themselves, i mean if you check aoezone and see the semis scheduled in the event calendar you already know who won the first round matches or even when youre streaming people will talk about the games in your chat even if you dont want them to. So i guess the casting on the escape channel will suffer big time from that.
If your goal still is to bring new people to the game they will probably check the escape stream first, where they will see the recs without any major breaks in one go. Later they might switch to other channels to catch the games live, and there they will be confronted with players being late, drafts taking place before the game starts (so basically 15-30 minutes waiting for nothing except knowing which maps will be played), res, long pauses, drops, restored games or even something like what happened with fire vs vilese recently. The older viewers are used to that stuff and dont really care about it, but newer viewers might get pretty annoyed by so much downtime, so they either switch back to the escape channel with nearly no interaction since most other users dont care about the stream since they already saw the games or got spoiled, or they stop watching altogether.
I think the escape channel will not be anything important after that, good for bigger casters like Memb and Nili since i will watch them more often, but bad for smaller casters since they dont get the chance to present themselves to a bigger audience on escapeaoe. If i think about great casters like nobody, KillerB or more recently Ornlu or Demeyesred i dont think i would follow them right now if i didnt hear them Cocasting on escape first, and i think it will get more difficult for casters like them to get some exposure since noone will care about the escape streams anymore.
 
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NetherlandsiViktorius

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May 9, 2014
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#66
Well, looks like im the only one with mixed feelings about that one. Sure, i prefer live games over recs, but i think there are some problems coming from that especially for the escape channel. That change will benefit the streamers who are casting basically all the time (like Memb or Nili) snce they will cast it live and i will watch it on a live channel instead of the escape channel, whereas until now i always watched on the escape channel to support the ones organizing the tournament (as i also do with other tournaments like NAC qualifiers on Nilis channel, Kotd on Membs channel or Hidden Cup on T90s channel). These casters will most likely not cast the games again on the escape channel, or if they do they will be way less motivated since they already know the results. Also most other casters will know the results even if they didnt cast the games themselves, i mean if you check aoezone and see the semis scheduled in the event calendar you already know who won the first round matches or even when youre streaming people will talk about the games in your chat even if you dont want them to. So i guess the casting on the escape channel will suffer big time from that. And if your goal still is to bring new people to the game they will probably check the escape stream first, where they will see the recs without any major breaks in one go. Later they might switch to other channels to catch the games live, and there they will be confronted with players being late, drafts taking place before the game starts (so basically 15-30 minutes waiting for nothing except knowing which maps will be played), res, long pauses, drops, restored games or even something like what happened with fire vs vilese recently. The older viewers are used to that stuff and dont really care about it, but newer viewers might get pretty annoyed by so much downtime, so they either switch back to the escape channel with nearly no interaction since most other users dont care about the stream since they already saw the games or got spoiled, or they stop watching altogether. I think the escape channel will not be anything important after that, good for bigger casters like Memb and Nili since i will watch them more often, but bad for smaller casters since they dont get the chance to present themselves to a bigger audience on escapeaoe. If i think about great casters like nobody, KillerB or more recently Ornlu or Demeyesred i dont think i would follow them right now if i didnt hear them Cocasting on escape first, and i think it will get more difficult for casters like them to get some exposure since noone will care about the escape streams anymore.
Can you please use Enter? This is basically undreadable.
 

Aland Islandskw1k000000

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#67
Well, looks like im the only one with mixed feelings about that one. Sure, i prefer live games over recs, but i think there are some problems coming from that especially for the escape channel. That change will benefit the streamers who are casting basically all the time (like Memb or Nili) snce they will cast it live and i will watch it on a live channel instead of the escape channel, whereas until now i always watched on the escape channel to support the ones organizing the tournament (as i also do with other tournaments like NAC qualifiers on Nilis channel, Kotd on Membs channel or Hidden Cup on T90s channel). These casters will most likely not cast the games again on the escape channel, or if they do they will be way less motivated since they already know the results. Also most other casters will know the results even if they didnt cast the games themselves, i mean if you check aoezone and see the semis scheduled in the event calendar you already know who won the first round matches or even when youre streaming people will talk about the games in your chat even if you dont want them to. So i guess the casting on the escape channel will suffer big time from that. And if your goal still is to bring new people to the game they will probably check the escape stream first, where they will see the recs without any major breaks in one go. Later they might switch to other channels to catch the games live, and there they will be confronted with players being late, drafts taking place before the game starts (so basically 15-30 minutes waiting for nothing except knowing which maps will be played), res, long pauses, drops, restored games or even something like what happened with fire vs vilese recently. The older viewers are used to that stuff and dont really care about it, but newer viewers might get pretty annoyed by so much downtime, so they either switch back to the escape channel with nearly no interaction since most other users dont care about the stream since they already saw the games or got spoiled, or they stop watching altogether. I think the escape channel will not be anything important after that, good for bigger casters like Memb and Nili since i will watch them more often, but bad for smaller casters since they dont get the chance to present themselves to a bigger audience on escapeaoe. If i think about great casters like nobody, KillerB or more recently Ornlu or Demeyesred i dont think i would follow them right now if i didnt hear them Cocasting on escape first, and i think it will get more difficult for casters like them to get some exposure since noone will care about the escape streams anymore.
As someone else said, paragraphs are good for reading.

Two things,

- Escape needs to find a way to cast the games live. This is how it works in every other sports and esports. It's great that they changed their view which was quite stubborn. Memb said he wouldn't mind covering some of the series live on escape channel.

- if they want they can always do a rerun of the casts on weekend for the audience who only wants to watch on weekend. It costs nothing.

For stream viewers who only want to watch on weekend, noone forces you to come on forums and click on match topics or check schedules. If your goal is to only watch on weekend or check YouTube then stay away from forums till you watched. Time doesn't stop for anyone.
 
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SpainMembTV

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Aug 17, 2011
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#68
That change will benefit the streamers who are casting basically all the time (like Memb or Nili) .
Well there is more things behind scenes, i personally offered myself to help them with the cast in their channel, and with a good deal for both i would keep helping and casting for them, to support the host of the event.
 
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MexicoSouFire

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Mar 11, 2011
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#69
come on you know what i mean, if you watch the games you can tell he definitely plays better without streaming.

and most players would say they do as well (at least the ones ive heard be vocal about this).
You are right man, experts shouldn't be allowed to stream their pov in serious matches or at least not talking at all, just recording, it is a big distraction for them, even the snake doesn't stream when it is serious.
 

Finlandbuhanisson

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May 29, 2015
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#70
Experts also shouldnt be allowed to drink Saturo or scratch their balls during tournament games if you ask me, but how about just let them decide for themselves. I'm sure they are the ones who know their own abilities the best, and I'm sure they all are motivated enough to win that whenever something is making them play worse they will eventually realize to stop it without a community intervention.

When I used to play some other games at expert level in my distant youth, I actually always thought that I played the best whenever I had audience to impress. And e.g. many football players actually dislike it when they are forced to play games on an empty stadium because of some past fan violence or sumn.

DauT is of course the single most important human being on the planet, I dont argue about that, but still there are many other lesser people in the world, too, who might have slightly different preferences. DauT grew up during a time when recorded games were traded on floppy disks face-to-face from a local black market dealer, who also supplied VHS porn casettes. For him the new technologies and methods of communication are more confusing. Some young people have been streaming nonstop on twitch since they were 10 years old, and they might not have any problems at all with it. Just let all decide for themselves.
 
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United StatesOrnLu528

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#71
My own 2 cents from the perspective of a smaller caster:

1. This is objectively good for the veteran AoE2 viewer. Live games are better than recorded games, and chances are there will be someone casting/streaming every single match.

2. This is a mixed bag for the newer/casual AoE2 viewer. Yes live games are better, but they will have to be very proactive if they want to catch the matches going on at weird times. Chances are matches will be happening when a lot of people are at work/asleep, so it will be very difficult for people to keep track of live matches. If they want to watch the Saturday Escape stream, then they can of course do that, buuuut that brings me to -

3. RIP the Saturday Escape stream. To me, recs can still be hype if (almost) no one knows the results, but since so much of the community will know the results, I can't imagine many people wanting to watch the recs stream. Furthermore, from the caster side of things, I know that I personally have no interest in casting games that a bunch of people are spoiled to, especially since I myself will likely be spoiled.

4. Finally, and perhaps most selfishly, I am kinda bummed out because I know that, as a full-time student, I will almost certainly be unable to cast every series live. Up to this point, I have cast every single ECL match without fail (except for literally the 1st stream), so that is kinda unfortunate. From a "business" side of things it also sucks, because now I will have less opportunity to get my name out there - so to say.

I guess it's kinda a mixed bag, and I certainly don't begrudge Escape's decision (although I am a bit confused by it). In the end, so long as this is better for the growth of AoE2 eSports, I am content.
 
May 1, 2018
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#72
This is something that can be worked on - for example, given the prize pool, Escape can ask for the finals (and, even, the semis) to be played on the weekend at prime time. It’s still quite a bit of cash on the line, and for the climaxes the teams should be able to accommodate...

(Then, for example, the finals can be exclusively casted on Escape for non-Chinese viewers, or Escape can go back to their previous semi-open steaming policy,)
 
Oct 22, 2016
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#73
Personally not a fan. I enjoyed the way I could go in not knowing the results and watch a high quality production of all of the weeks games. Obviously the Chinese games would get spoiled, but depending on the tournament that is far from all of the games. Now I will miss games which will then get spoiled / I will just want to find out the result and the viewers will be split far more now. There's no way to be in the community, all the discords and get to the weekend without knowing all of the results now. I enjoyed group discord chats while Escape was on, sadly that won't be a thing now.

I think we were spoiled far above the level we deserve with these streams.

But if this is what most people want, nice to see Escape listening. If it will work, we will find out I guess.
 
Jul 30, 2017
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#74
Agree on what Carlini said.
Recorded games have many advantages. And I just liked these lazy saturdays. Avoiding discord and youtube comments won't be a problem for me, but i am sure that I will get spoilered anyway either here or on twitch.

I really hope that both the streamers and their mods are gonna be pretty strict and forbid talk about ECL ( I know, won't happen).

Anyway I think it is really awesome by Escape that they are listening to the critiques and are willing to change so many things in favour of the community :smile:
 
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#75
I really hope that both the streamers and their mods are gonna be pretty strict and forbid talk about ECL ( I know, won't happen).
Have you ever seen anyone arguing for these kind of restrictions when people want to talk about the game which happened last night. No one. You know why because we all want to talk about live experiences. This is why media outlets run highlights and discussions. This is what generates hype and keeps people interested, not making everyone shut up about what they experienced in the moment.

This whole talk about spoilers here is borderline crazy.
 

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