ECL Questions & Answers

Australiarobo

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For the main event, there is arena in the setting in diverse stage.

Have you thought about the 1800 hp version one ? We had good discussion after moa5, where viper (who is also moa3 and 5 winner) and most arena experts said opinion about 900hp wall in arena (Stefan melkor Miguel me..)

After all is depend on what aspect you wanted to be shown by making arena a sett map, but if it’s the real arena aspect which are strategy decision, build order, adaptation, preparation etc like it always was, then I think using the 1800hp version should be better, if it’s to see some trush festival which remove all the aspect said above, then arena is fine.
We will be using Arina. Next handbook update will specify this, and the mappack has been updated.
 

GermanynC_Andorin

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TL;DR thread.
Goldrush needs to be fixed before the tournament start, we tried out a couple of games and teams get lakes with up to 8 fishes which is a major advantage.
Goldrush_Lakefree is the "fair" version.
Edit: Also the gold spots are often bugged.
 
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As Spring said,a year is really long for a tournament with only 8 teams,so i think a year-long competition should have some way of adding new teams.

For example,every 2-3 events tournaments there will be a qualifier between the worst 2 teams and 4 challenger teams(higher elo).

Challenger 1 vs Challenger 4 and Challenger 2 vs Challenger 3
Winner of match 1 vs Team 7º and winner match 2 vs team 8º

This promotion/relegation system would add hype and encourage players who wants to join the tournament,forcing the last teams of league to practice more.
 
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Franceedie

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I am having a problem with the valley map (from the official pack), sometimes I get cow with 150 food, sometimes i get sheeps (100 food).

To be sure i went single player mod and launched many times, and yeah got sometimes cow 150f sometimes sheeps 100f.

@robo
 

UnknownLanchi

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use notepad to open the rms, and you can see
Code:
if PRALES
create_object MAMALLAMA
elseif RAMPOUCH
create_object MLIKARNA
elseif SMRK
create_object MLIKARNA
else
create_object SHEEP
endif
(something like this, this is HD version not ECL version)
 
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Not sure if this is a dupe...for player whose team is eliminated in qualification stage, can he transfer to another team to continue play the main stage?
 

United KingdomHyunAOP

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The Escape Champions League will use some balance changes in the maps for the upcoming event(s). This will serve as a betatest for Forgotten Empires, so these changes will most likely also happen in the future on HD.
The changes are:


The changes are:
  • Increasing the cost of towers by 25 wood (from 25 to 50)
  • Korean fortification bonus does not affect towers
  • Increasing the cost of Arambai and Elite Arambai by 30 wood (from 50 to 80)
  • Increasing the cost of Karambit Warriors and Elite Karambit Warriors by 5 food and 5 gold (from 25 food 10 gold to 30 food 15 gold)
  • Increasing the cost of Couriers (Inca unique armor tech) to 600 food and 600 gold (from 400 food and 200 gold)

I know there is a secret group for this and that is fine but does anyone actually talk about the cost efficiency of such units?

The tower change is fine but now Koreans are kind of if not worse than in AOC since they lost the mangonel range of +1 in favour of -1 min range which is a blessing and a curse bonus. Their feudal age outside of towers becomes generic and playing standard feels off with them, they're literally no better than Vietnamese who at least get bloodlines and a laughable hp boni on archers but a bonus +1 up the koreans nonetheless. Even sara is better than them with these changes. I also think 50w is a bit excessive for a Watch Tower, was that a ballpark figure thrown randomly? 35-40w seems more reasonable.

The Arambai cost is good since there seems to be a refusal on giving them a food cost but their gold cost is still pretty cheap but this is the change that's good for Burmese so no complaints.

The Karambit cost increase doesn't actually change much either, again it seems like a random ballpark figure you all threw for no reason and doesn't really nerf them much in any way whatsoever.

In fact with creation time and new cost of +5f +5g factored in, these are the units Karambits are good against assuming 5 castle vs 5 castle for UU or multiple military buildings:

- Elite Jaguar Warriors
- Elite Berserks
- Paladins
- Elite Mamelukes
- Elite Huskarls (okay this one is fair and can be made at Barracks) but even Goth Champion spam (what?) E Karambit still win pop cost effectively
- Hand Cannoneers (it's mostly down to their creation speed but they decimate them) and HC fire too slow and move too slow and even with Micro just sux
- Elite Kamayuks
- Elite Jannissary
- Elite Conqs
- Elite Elephant Archer
- Elite Gbeto
- Elite Throwing Axemen
- Elite Shotel Warriors

Toss up vs

- Massed Elite Longbowmen (yes not a joke) but if gap closed, gg longbows xd
- Massed Elite Rattan Archer/Genoese Xbow
- Massed Arbalest/HCA (depends on micro) same goes for Camel Archer/Mangudai/Arambai etc ( although Mangudai when Elite do exceptionally well with Micro)
- Massed Slingers (if karambits don't get a surround)

Flat out loses vs

- Elite Teutonic Knight
- Elite Samurai (ETK and Samurai have decent enough creation speed to kill provided they can get karambit to fight them head on, and even though Samurai and Jaguar are equal in strength, samurai faster attack speed does less overkill to karambit than EJag does)
- Elite Plumed Archer (in sufficient mass and micro, they do less overkill with a boni vs infantry and fast attack speed)
- Elite Cataphract (best unit outside of slavic champ that beats them)
- All Elephants (Battle and War ones)
- Slavic Champions

So as you can see the increased cost doesn't do that much and instead increased creation time is needed. I'm not saying that some of the units Karambit beat such as Throwing Axemen and Gbeto deserve to beat them, but units like EJag and EBerserk should put up a better fight yet they do not, simply because of creation time. Even if 3 malay castle vs 5 they don't really stand a chance. They're just spammable and being only 0.5 pop a piece doesn't make matters any better. So the real fix is make them create slower, they're still a swarm UU but you only need so few castles to achieve it, then sink the rest of the stone into BBTs.

Couriers change

Not sure why this was done but if Elite Men in Chicken Suits is a problem with Incas, what makes Aztec and Mayan ones less of a problem? Those civs spend far less food and have far better eco than Incas do. Cost is a bit too much. But it's not a big deal, incas are a counter civ and play differently to those civs. 500f 500g seems fairer to me. Aztec and Mayans have better EEW overall.

I got nothing against the changes overall but if cost efficiency and balance is done right so said units like karambits are equal to other infantry UUs in a straight up fight so civs like Vikings can have an answer that would be a good stepping stone.


In fact Aztec spend more for +4 attack for infantry than malians do for +5 (effectively +3 coz no blast furnace so they save even more resource) for their cavalry and they don't get a price increase but then again their imperial age has a rather high drop off rate so I guess it's fine and no paladin/hussar either.

And what about any changes to Battle Elephants and Spear line vs Camels?

Reminder that a non pro player suggested Kamayuks to get a bonus vs Elephants when back in the day they didn't. Boy would incas suck if that change wasn't added in 11.
 
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IrelandTimotheus_

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@HyunAOP I think courier makes a lot of sense. IF it only affected eagles warrior then I agree with you. BUT given it also affects slings and kamayuks it makes a lot of sense. Kamayuks with cheap courier is one of the more scary units around. Then slingers also kill both archer line and infantry line with 2 extra piece
 
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United KingdomHyunAOP

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@HyunAOP I think courier makes a lot of sense. IF it only affected eagles warrior then I agree with you. BUT given it also affects slings and kamayuks it makes a lot of sense. Kamayuks with cheap courier is one of the more scary units around. Then slingers also kill both archer line and infantry line with 2 extra piece
The archer thing is a myth because Generic FU Arbalests with Thumb Ring or Briton Arbs > Couriers Slingers but if Arbs miss any upgrade (like Aztec, Malians and Mongols) then yes Couriers Slingers > Arbs.

With that said, Slingers absoultely suck vs Cataphract and Paladin because Thumb Ring does not boost their attack rate, only accuracy and Arbs and HC do a much better job in that scenario. (Also Inca do have an answer to those units in the form of Halb/Kamayuk) But I agree vs Infantry slingers are the best, both pop cost wise and DPS wise.

The fire rate of FU Arbalests and micromanagement make them the better choice in a head on fight vs Slingers.
 

IrelandTimotheus_

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The archer thing is a myth because Generic FU Arbalests with Thumb Ring or Briton Arbs > Couriers Slingers but if Arbs miss any upgrade (like Aztec, Malians and Mongols) then yes Couriers Slingers > Arbs.

With that said, Slingers absoultely suck vs Cataphract and Paladin because Thumb Ring does not boost their attack rate, only accuracy and Arbs and HC do a much better job in that scenario. (Also Inca do have an answer to those units in the form of Halb/Kamayuk) But I agree vs Infantry slingers are the best, both pop cost wise and DPS wise.

The fire rate of FU Arbalests and micromanagement make them the better choice in a head on fight vs Slingers.
Didn't necessary mean they beat the archer line... more trade cost efficiently. Then against archers you have eagles 10 PA, vs cav (or anything else tbh) kamayuk (6PA 80HP 1range)
 

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