ECL Questions & Answers

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The rules need to be applied consistently even to the team that is most responsible for the viewership success of your tournament. I don't at all understand the spoiling rule - there's only 2 teams that haven't spoiled a result yet for me and as it's not even live who really cares if the results are spoiled or not - but if it is there then it needs to be applied across the board.

That said if Viper and Daut did spoil the results then it needs to be backed up to the same standard of evidence that resulted in a strike for aM. Although as they're both hopefully honest I suppose they'd just admit it.
 
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The only time I remember that I kinda spoiled something was during a Fortnite stream of Daut's where I told Daut and Tatoh that miguel confirmed a time for us to play, where I obviously had a bit of a brainfart, but we tried to cover it up. It wasn't a direct spoiler, but people could add up that both teams had advanced the previous round.

It can be very hard to not give away anything at all during hours and hours of live streaming when you're interracting with players and viewers, so it might have happened more, but I don't remember any other incidents. If it happened, we would obviously not complain if we received the punishments according to the rules.
 

ItalyLaskerf

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Actually even if some streamer accidentally spoils something, as a viewer I'm never sure if it's a jebait or not. Also if you always cast recs then this will happen no matter how careful players are... maybe cast live events if you don't want any spoilers LUL
 
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Unknownorangereaper

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FWIW,
1. Casting recs is the future.
It is LIVE and takes away delays, FP etc. Come Sat/Sun I can count on viewing quality AOE games.
2. Leveraging rec games better.
In LIVE game, no one can control the pace and the outcome (drops, pauses, lags etc.)
With rec games, it would be awesome to do rewinds, multple POV of battle scenes (esp in late IMP). Action replay, analyze some micro/macro movements.
3. Prize money for the team.
I'm sure its in the handbook, but do lower teams (7th/8th) get any part of prize pool? I hope they do as it'll ensure continued motivation. If I'm Hersey, for most of the part they're destined to be #8. However if there is a payout based on points then atleast they'll be motivated everygame. (my 2cents :smile:)
 

Netherlandsnimanoe

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I'm sure its in the handbook, but do lower teams (7th/8th) get any part of prize pool? I hope they do as it'll ensure continued motivation. If I'm Hersey, for most of the part they're destined to be #8. However if there is a payout based on points then atleast they'll be motivated everygame. (my 2cents :smile:)
There aren't any prizes for reaching a placement at the end of the tournament, but there are prizes by getting top 4 (or top 8 for 1v1 stage) of every stage, so they only need to win 1 game to earn prizemoney. You can see here that Heresy earned 274$ so far
 
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UnknownCarlini8

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I don't at all understand the spoiling rule - there's only 2 teams that haven't spoiled a result yet for me and as it's not even live who really cares if the results are spoiled or not - but if it is there then it needs to be applied across the board.
Because if you don't know the result and no one watching knows the result, what really is the difference?

If I am watching the Tatoh vs BacT final game and I know BacT is going to win it I am not thinking, oh wow, Tatoh looks like he will take this, what? How is BacT coming back?!

I am thinking, well, I know BacT wins this, lets see how it happens.

It is a completely different mindset and this happens so much in other sports. I can't even count the amount of times just this month I have been told don't tell me the score in the Man U game, I have it recorded, don't tell me the result of the F1, I am watching it when I get home. But that is because I can only count to 12 because I run out of fingers after that.
 
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United Statessmarthy_

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Because if you don't know the result and no one watching knows the result, what really is the difference?

If I am watching the Tatoh vs BacT final game and I know BacT is going to win it I am not thinking, oh wow, Tatoh looks like he will take this, what? How is BacT coming back?!

I am thinking, well, I know BacT wins this, lets see how it happens.

It is a completely different mindset and this happens so much in other sports. I can't even count the amount of times just this month I have been told don't tell me the score in the Man U game, I have it recorded, don't tell me the result of the F1, I am watching it when I get home. But that is because I can only count to 12 because I run out of fingers after that.
You have 12 fingers?
 
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United StatesT-West

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The brackets for upcoming events were changed a couple weeks ago due to previously being completely unbalanced. Has this been announced anywhere publicly?

Also, water maps were "balanced" with WK; fish had much better distribution, but this doesn't seem to be the case with mediterranean (probably with other maps as well). What was the reason for reverting this change which was actually good?
Sorry I missed this post earlier.

For the brackets, I thought robo had made a post about it, but I can't find it now, so I'll explain the situation here. When the brackets were first made, Zak made sure that every team faced each other team exactly twice in the first round. At the time, he didn't notice this condition is not enough to ensure the brackets are fair, as it does not take into account the potential meetups in later rounds.

Ideally, each pair of teams would have 8 chances to meet in the finals (i.e. appear on opposite sides of the brackets 8 times), 4 chances to meet in the 2nd round, and 2 matchups in the first round. By the time we we were awared of the error, it was too late to fix the brackets perfectly. So we did our best to improve their balance as much as we could.

Listing potential final, then semifinal, then first round matchups in that order, the majority of teams now have either 9, 3, 2 or 7, 5, 2 potential meetups. Out of the 28 pairs of teams, there are only 4 who have either 6, 6, 2 or 10, 4, 2 potential meetups (I can explain that more clearly if that doesn't make sense). This is significantly different than the original brackets, which had some pairs of teams on opposite sides of the brackets 12 times so they would never meet in the semifinals but only potentially in the finals.

For the Mediterranean fish, every map has lots of different versions floating around: the original maps, the HD/WK versions, and versions from Nations Cup and other tournaments. When making the maps I look at a variety of different versions of the map and try to pick out the best version, sometimes making slight modifications or combining features of different versions. I also need to update the maps every time HD or WK updates (putting balance changes and sling nerfs meant all of the maps had to be update periodically along with other updates).

I likely took the fish spawn from another version of Mediterranean (probably the 2017 Nations Cup version, but I don't remember off the top of my head) and didn't notice the difference when testing it myself or when having robo double check the maps. As far as map imbalances are concerned, it's probably best to post in the Map Discussion thread, and tag me in the post. At this point, I would rather not make more changes to the maps in the middle of the round, but the East Asia maps for next round are already released and included in the map mod, so please let me know if you notice any issues with them.
 

SpainAtor

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ZeroEmpires won't strike his team for spoiling. Forget about that.
I understand that you don't like Team Secret but you shouldn't add ZeroEmpires into this. If you really think we spoiled anything, it is simpe, proof it and then i'm sure Zak will strike us because he doesn't favor any team. If you don't have any proof, just don't throw shit on anybody please :wink:
 

UnknownSuperskinnyBLS

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I understand that you don't like Team Secret but you shouldn't add ZeroEmpires into this. If you really think we spoiled anything, it is simpe, proof it and then i'm sure Zak will strike us because he doesn't favor any team. If you don't have any proof, just don't throw shit on anybody please :wink:
Why are you asking me for a proof? I only said he wouldn't punish his team.
 

UnknownLanchi

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TBH majority of people dont know/care about the chinese streams, you are putting it out there by repeatedly mentioning it.
Base on carlini8’s post somewhere, some discord actually many ppl watching it
First several stage I was thinking like you, don’t mention it here so less ppl know
But it’s very well known now, not a secret anymore. Each post I reply i’m not the first guy mention it.

And do you really think less ppl care means rule should not be applied or privilege should be given?

This is actually very big issue in Taiwan and some viewers who watch both twitch and douyu.
We like to watch their gaming stream, but just randomly click the link to watch normal rated game and got spoil everything.
Even made sure they are playing rated game in MS before open it, on the screen it shows “tonight 9pm vs BacT” or on title “won tournament” or talking about “other team xx player lost to yy”...
 
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Canada_5_

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Well Relax Mr. HighAlmighty.
I am saying you are giving it more exposure, nothing more. Go talk to Zak or someone privately.
Everytime you mention it you are letting it in public.

And do you really think less ppl care means rule should not be applied or privilege should be given?
Nice deduction skills!
 

AustriaThePr0phet

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Base on carlini8’s post somewhere, some discord actually many ppl watching it
First several stage I was thinking like you, don’t mention it here so less ppl know
But it’s very well known now, not a secret anymore. Each post I reply i’m not the first guy mention it.

And do you really think less ppl care means rule should not be applied or privilege should be given?

This is actually very big issue in Taiwan and some viewers who watch both twitch and douyu.
We like to watch their gaming stream, but just randomly click the link to watch normal rated game and got spoil everything.
Even made sure they are playing rated game in MS before open it, on the screen it shows “tonight 9pm vs BacT” or on title “won tournament” or talking about “other team xx player lost to yy”...

I share your opinion 100% only because someone is not the majority doesnt give him the right to do whatever he wants. But aoe community is like if one is racist or one doesnt apply rules or whatsoever as long it is only a minority everybody just claims, let them do their thing. So lets make chinese streams great again. If we all watch their streams and dont watch it on twitch anymore they probably will change their approach... no subs nothing... lets go china
 

PeruHearttt

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Sorry I missed this post earlier.

For the brackets, I thought robo had made a post about it, but I can't find it now, so I'll explain the situation here. When the brackets were first made, Zak made sure that every team faced each other team exactly twice in the first round. At the time, he didn't notice this condition is not enough to ensure the brackets are fair, as it does not take into account the potential meetups in later rounds.

Ideally, each pair of teams would have 8 chances to meet in the finals (i.e. appear on opposite sides of the brackets 8 times), 4 chances to meet in the 2nd round, and 2 matchups in the first round. By the time we we were awared of the error, it was too late to fix the brackets perfectly. So we did our best to improve their balance as much as we could.

Listing potential final, then semifinal, then first round matchups in that order, the majority of teams now have either 9, 3, 2 or 7, 5, 2 potential meetups. Out of the 28 pairs of teams, there are only 4 who have either 6, 6, 2 or 10, 4, 2 potential meetups (I can explain that more clearly if that doesn't make sense). This is significantly different than the original brackets, which had some pairs of teams on opposite sides of the brackets 12 times so they would never meet in the semifinals but only potentially in the finals.

For the Mediterranean fish, every map has lots of different versions floating around: the original maps, the HD/WK versions, and versions from Nations Cup and other tournaments. When making the maps I look at a variety of different versions of the map and try to pick out the best version, sometimes making slight modifications or combining features of different versions. I also need to update the maps every time HD or WK updates (putting balance changes and sling nerfs meant all of the maps had to be update periodically along with other updates).

I likely took the fish spawn from another version of Mediterranean (probably the 2017 Nations Cup version, but I don't remember off the top of my head) and didn't notice the difference when testing it myself or when having robo double check the maps. As far as map imbalances are concerned, it's probably best to post in the Map Discussion thread, and tag me in the post. At this point, I would rather not make more changes to the maps in the middle of the round, but the East Asia maps for next round are already released and included in the map mod, so please let me know if you notice any issues with them.
Fair enough, mistakes happen. I just feel like it's something important enough that it needs to be announced for everyone, including the viewers, for transparency purposes. Regarding water maps, I think the versions with evenly distributed fish are a really big improvement for more balanced games, hopefully you guys can discuss about it and get around to making them the maps for ECL too.
 

UnknownDouble_N

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So I was thinking, what are the actual steps needed to make official ECL stream on a chinese plattform and I don´t think it should be that hard if you have 1-2 guys who can communicate well enough in chinese and english to organize it. I mean, its still a lots of work and you need to find the right guys, but all the first steps untill you actually start to stream and start compensating the streamers just require a couple of hours work and communication with no additional investment whatsoever.

First step: Send a questionnaire to the top chinese players
- which plattform you prefer to stream/watch streams
- would you support an official stream (advertise, not stream at the same time)
- who, appart from the well known top players, would be suitable for casting (send contact pls)
- would you be willing to cast any other week, possibly for a share of the revenue
- would you be willing to help setting up the account intially, give infos/help with streaming programm/overlay, payment service
- would you still be willing to help if its not on your prefered plattform
- if the account for payment service can´t be run by someone from europe/states, who in the chinese community is trustworthy with money and would be suited to handle the account
- ...

Once this is done and yields promising results, the guys who are organizing it for escape, set up the account, find out how to make an overlay for chinese OBS or whatever they are using, communicate the payment stuff etc. and all that is needed onwards is to schedule the casters, send them the streamkey and overlay and have them be in the lobby where the recs are casted. And if its too difficult with the payment stuff, you can even leave that out for the first couple of streams and find a solution afterwards.
 

ChinaViga_TCB

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Dec 28, 2016
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So I was thinking, what are the actual steps needed to make official ECL stream on a chinese plattform and I don´t think it should be that hard if you have 1-2 guys who can communicate well enough in chinese and english to organize it. I mean, its still a lots of work and you need to find the right guys, but all the first steps untill you actually start to stream and start compensating the streamers just require a couple of hours work and communication with no additional investment whatsoever.

First step: Send a questionnaire to the top chinese players
- which plattform you prefer to stream/watch streams
- would you support an official stream (advertise, not stream at the same time)
- who, appart from the well known top players, would be suitable for casting (send contact pls)
- would you be willing to cast any other week, possibly for a share of the revenue
- would you be willing to help setting up the account intially, give infos/help with streaming programm/overlay, payment service
- would you still be willing to help if its not on your prefered plattform
- if the account for payment service can´t be run by someone from europe/states, who in the chinese community is trustworthy with money and would be suited to handle the account
- ...

Once this is done and yields promising results, the guys who are organizing it for escape, set up the account, find out how to make an overlay for chinese OBS or whatever they are using, communicate the payment stuff etc. and all that is needed onwards is to schedule the casters, send them the streamkey and overlay and have them be in the lobby where the recs are casted. And if its too difficult with the payment stuff, you can even leave that out for the first couple of streams and find a solution afterwards.
Yes so much yes. I honestly believe that the problem lies in communication, or the lack thereof. Personally I prefer recs from a business standpoint since it can help grow the community but viewers don't think so in China. It might be naive to hope that talking can solve all problems, but it can at least alleviate some of it.
One thing that might be an issue though - the CN community lacks a big caster like T90.But it never hurts to try and have the players fill that role.
 

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