ECL - Map Contest Winners [East Asia]

GermanyEscapeAoE

Two handed swordman
Bronze Supporter
Feb 1, 2017
334
920
118
escape.gg
#1


Thank you to all who submitted maps in ECL Map Design Contest, we are astounded at the amount of effort put in by so many users, many of whom are new to map scripting! We hope this competition has been fun and interesting to participate in and look forward to seeing new maps for future tournaments!

Here are the next winners!

Prizes
First Place: $60
Runner Up: $40

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In first place we have @Zetnus with their map Team Causeways! Congratulations, we look forward to seeing this map played in the upcoming East Asia Stage. The map has already been added to the ECL map pack and is ready to be played!


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In second place we have @Chrazini with the map Takeshima.



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Winners will be contacted shortly about claiming your prize.
Thanks again for all of the efforts by everyone, we'll be looking forward to announcing the winners for the next stage soon; which will be South East Asia!
 

Netherlandsnimanoe

Knight
Bronze Supporter
Jan 15, 2014
2,211
1,637
138
23
#4
Congratz to both!
Even though I personally prefer Takeshima, as it's more refreshing, I think Team Causeways will be picked more often, because it's easier to adapt, since it's pretty much Team Islands with crossings, while for Takeshima you'll have to test a lot before finding the ideal strategy
 

Austriateutonic_tanks

Two handed swordman
Mar 30, 2013
2,178
536
118
#5
This is a complete joke, that Team Causeway map is 1:1 copy of the aoc-team islands, he only added crossings and literally copied everyting else 1:1.
Just remember the 1st rule of the mapcontest:
Rules
1. Contestants must submit their own work.
I don't understand how a map can be accepted for the contest if it's over 95% just copy pasted and clearly NOT his work. On top of that rewarding it even is an insult towards everybody who made original content: Henk, Algenor, me, chrazini...

The real winner of this stage is therefore the 2nd place, chrazini and the Team Causeways map should be disqualified.
 

Nepalarchxeon

Well-Known Member
Jan 6, 2014
193
362
68
#6
The real winner of this stage is therefore the 2nd place, chrazini and the Team Causeways map should be disqualified.
I think you are being a little unfair teutonic. He actually acknowledges the similarities but also points out the difference. And there are very few maps that are not just a variant of an existing map.

Team Causeways
Similar to the classic "Team Islands", except that shallows connect the islands and that there is noticeably more land and less water. In a 1v1 there is one connection. More players will result in disproportionately more connections. Resources are standard. Includes seasonal tilesets.
 

NetherlandsBurandal

Active Member
Aug 11, 2015
69
206
38
#7
There are lots of maps around that look like eachother, adding crossings to a familiar looking map makes the map completely different! It's like adding a big pont to Arabia doesn't make it arabia with water, its makes the playstyle and map totally different and thereby a new map.
If you're thinking like you do @teutonic_tanks , there can't be innovation.

Gratz to both winners, i really like both maps!
 

Austriateutonic_tanks

Two handed swordman
Mar 30, 2013
2,178
536
118
#8
I think you are being a little unfair teutonic. He actually acknowledges the similarities but also points out the difference. And there are very few maps that are not just a variant of an existing map.
There is a diffrenece between "acknowledges the similarities " and copy-pasting and here it was clearly crossed. It's not like he changed terrains, fish distribution, distances, resources. It's just a simple copy of a standard aoc map with one thing added, the rms script is the SAME.
There have been sent in dozens of maps, that are original content: 100% selfmade and not just simply variants of something. Better start checking entries before you reply.
 
Likes: OLADUSHEK

Austriateutonic_tanks

Two handed swordman
Mar 30, 2013
2,178
536
118
#9
oh yes there is: go to Age of Empires II\DATA, then open gamedata_x1.drs, search for "team islands" and you will find the original map from 29 NOV 99 by ES. Then open the team causeway script and compare it. You will notice that except the corssings added in <connection gegeration> it's 1:1 the asia map seed of the original team islands.
 
Likes: Oli King

DenmarkChrazini

Longswordman
Dec 31, 2013
325
802
108
26
Denmark
Voobly
Chrazini
View profile
Ladder
RM - 1v1
Rating
1868
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65
Losses
37
Streak
-2
#11
In fear of people interpreting this message the wrong way, I still feel like I want to voice my opinion on this matter.
Perhaps I didn't understand the map contest; however, it does seem peculiar to me that plagiarism takes the cake in this competition.
Being the runner-up, I have to choose my words carefully. I am not writing this because I'm disappointed that I didn't get the first place - I'm writing this because I'm passionate about this subject and I don't think the outcome of this contest is fair.
The rules clearly state that you must only submit your own work, but when does a script become your own? How much do you have to edit for it to become original content? I don't know, but to me, this doesn't seem appropriate.
That being said, I have a lot of respect for Zetnus - random map scripting would not be as broadly available as it is without him. I'm mostly dissatisfied with the judges that allowed this submission to get to where it is now.

I firmly believe that the vast majority of the contestants in this competition is doing this out of love for the game and the biggest reward is to have our maps played by professionals and streamed for thousands of people - not the cash-out.
Going through all the fantastic submissions, I can tell that numerous hours have been spent creating and perfecting these maps. Therefore, having a conclusion like this personally saddens and discourages me as it doesn't reward creativity and originality.

All that being said, this is not my tournament. I understand that ECL may be looking at certain aspects of the maps that fit their tournament the most. I'm still proud and delighted being second in this contest. I hope we get to see a lot of exciting new maps in the future - and a 100% sincere congratulations to Zetnus for winning.
 

AustriaDeathcounter

Longswordman
Oct 15, 2017
554
649
108
18
docs.google.com
#14
that Team Causeway map is 1:1 copy of the aoc-team islands
When i saw the map the first time i was like: Lol, this looks like team island with shallows in between, and wanted to write what you did. But i guess you already did that, gj :smile:

Lets see, maybe i can make a Mediterrian Map with shallows connecting the players and submit it 11
 

Nepalarchxeon

Well-Known Member
Jan 6, 2014
193
362
68
#16
There is a diffrenece between "acknowledges the similarities " and copy-pasting and here it was clearly crossed. It's not like he changed terrains, fish distribution, distances, resources. It's just a simple copy of a standard aoc map with one thing added, the rms script is the SAME.
There have been sent in dozens of maps, that are original content: 100% selfmade and not just simply variants of something. Better start checking entries before you reply.
I've seen the entries including yours. I doubt every map is "100% self made". You draw inspiration from somewhere. Merely including shallows makes it unoriginal. At first, I just looked at his original post and read the changes that he made.

But you are an expert map maker and it seems you have looked at the script and see very little changes. If that's the case, I can't possibly defend that map.
 
Likes: noobishere
Oct 1, 2018
7
13
8
#18
@EscapeAoE is there any possibility of a compromise here? Takeshima looks like an amazing map, and I'd be very curious to see it played by the best in the game--would it be possible to include both? Could you possibly sanction some expert matches on the map and feature them on your stream? Not to disparage Zetnus--he's an amazing map maker, I have lots of respect for him, and have spent many hours hosting games using his maps. Team Causeways absolutely fits the criteria for the tournament--and offers an interesting 'twist' on team islands.

That being said--Takeshima feels like it would be a better inclusion in the 'featured' map slot--I think it would encourage a robust variety of strategies, as well as interesting off-the-cuff gameplay, similar to Rift Islands, Gorge, and Sun Burn, simply because it has that 'unknown' allure to it, which seems really important--and especially interesting when approached by world-class AOE gamers.

Again, this comment should in no-way disparage either map maker--I'm excited to see some games on Team Causeways either way. But I do think a compromise could be reached here, and hope @EscapeAoE considers my post in earnest.
 

United StatesInfluenza

Two handed swordman
Jul 7, 2011
2,122
1,151
118
#20
Didn't some guy win a previous contest on a different tournament with TI+shallows and nomad start? What an earth is going on with this TI remake fetish? Let alone when it's not even in any way or form creative.
yea, i was thinking the same exact thing. just awful 11
 

Austriateutonic_tanks

Two handed swordman
Mar 30, 2013
2,178
536
118
#21
Didn't some guy win a previous contest on a different tournament with TI+shallows and nomad start? What an earth is going on with this TI remake fetish? Let alone when it's not even in any way or form creative.
Ah you mean the CM mapcontest where the winner was one of the admin team 11

@EscapeAoE is there any possibility of a compromise here? Takeshima looks like an amazing map, and I'd be very curious to see it played by the best in the game--would it be possible to include both? Could you possibly sanction some expert matches on the map and feature them on your stream? Not to disparage Zetnus--he's an amazing map maker, I have lots of respect for him, and have spent many hours hosting games using his maps. Team Causeways absolutely fits the criteria for the tournament--and offers an interesting 'twist' on team islands.
Immagine someone copied some entry from henk/chrazini/me, added a boar and removed 2 sheep for everyone and then won it. This is pretty much the case we have here. Or maybe an even better example: immagine someone copies a text from wikipedia, changes like 10 words, says it's original content made by himself and wins some contest with it.
This wasnt a work of hours, rather of minutes.
 
Last edited:
Oct 1, 2018
7
13
8
#22
Ah you mean the CM mapcontest where the winner was one of the admin team 11


Immagine someone copied some entry from henk/chrazini/me, added a boar and removed 2 sheep for everyone and then won it. This is pretty much the case we have here. Or maybe an even better example: immagine someone copies a text from wikipedia, changes like 10 words, says it's original content made by himself and wins some contest with it.
This wasnt a work of hours, rather of minutes.
I'm not sure if this narrative checks out. Zetnus followed the rules, and did not plagiarize. He produced his own riff on an old standard--one of the original AOE II maps. Without any understanding of scripting, I think how the changes effect game-play, is generally more important than the quantity of time it took to tweak code. Some projects are going to require more coding time than others--some maps are going to look much closer to others, but still add dramatic change to game-play (think Green Arabia). In this case, shallows will add a new flourish of dynamics to Team Islands, while also providing Tatoh plenty of opportunities to blow shit up with his heavy demo ships...I do not think Zetnus is 'taking credit' for, or 'stealing', team islands.

If and when someone takes one of your maps and switches out a boar for 2 sheep, I will whip out my pitchfork and join in your witch hunt. For now though, Zetnus won the competition fair and square with Team Causeways.

At the same time--I still stand by my stance that Takeshima is still the more interesting map overall--so hence my post. I'm not disparaging Zetnus, nor posturing in anyway to imply Chrazini dissevers to have won--but would simply like to see his entry played in an upcoming tournament.
 
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Austriateutonic_tanks

Two handed swordman
Mar 30, 2013
2,178
536
118
#23
I'm not sure if this narrative checks out. Zetnus followed the rules, and did not plagiarize. He produced his own riff on an old standard--one of the original AOE II maps. Without any understanding of scripting, I think how the changes effect game-play, is generally more important than the quantity of time it took to tweak code.
If you dont think it's plagiarism, as said just go to Age of Empires II\DATA, then open gamedata_x1.drs, search for "team islands" and you will find the original map from 29 NOV 99 by ES. Then open the team causeway script and compare it. If you think that coping something 95% and adding 5% makes it original content and not a plagiat, then i cant help you. But ofc everyone is allowed to have a different opinion and if it's original content for you then i cant say anything against it.
Cosidering that Zentus even wrote several guides about mapmaking it's even more shocking.
 
Aug 7, 2014
20
35
23
#25
This is a complete joke, that Team Causeway map is 1:1 copy of the aoc-team islands, he only added crossings and literally copied everyting else 1:1.
Just remember the 1st rule of the mapcontest:

I don't understand how a map can be accepted for the contest if it's over 95% just copy pasted and clearly NOT his work. On top of that rewarding it even is an insult towards everybody who made original content: Henk, Algenor, me, chrazini...

The real winner of this stage is therefore the 2nd place, chrazini and the Team Causeways map should be disqualified.
It would appear a response is required.
I take this accusation of plagarism seriously.

Yes, what is produced is nothing super-unusual, because the more unusual stuff I submit generally doesn't get picked. I would have liked just as much as anyone to see one of my more unconventional entries picked instead.

HOWEVER, I did NOT copy or plagiarize the Team Islands script itself as has been suggested. This script is in fact modified from the original commented Coastal example map script (provided to teach people how a map script looks), because this is a map I made years ago (ie. 2013 ), when I didn't know as much as I know now (and did not even know how to access the Team Islands script in the gamedata). Numerous things are changed from that coastal map, however the the resources and terrain mixing as well as the original comments remain, and I freely admit that. It took me hours of work at the time to turn the Coastal map into a replicate of Team Islands.

That being said, it is quite similar to Team Islands, and that is the intention. A water map that offers a bit more gameplay-wise than your average islands map, without being too out of the ordinary. Terrain mixing and such is taken from vanilla AoC, yes. I see no issue with using standard resource sets or standard terrain mixing, since that is what players are used to and will expect.

EDIT: So I took another look at the script. It seems may have gone back an taken some stuff from Team Islands when I did an update in 2015. I know I originally used Coastal. In any case, the judges can choose what they feel will facilitate interesting gameplay. I never claimed my map was anything radically different than Team Islands with connections.
 
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