ECL hype issue

Hungarymisafeco

Active Member
Feb 17, 2012
223
93
43
27
Budapest, Hungary
Voobly
misafeco
View profile
Ladder
RM - 1v1
Rating
1572
Wins
3
Losses
4
Streak
-2
Only reading that sentence just killed off about half my brain cells.

Native = more professional? Are you Viktor Orban on a smurf account?

Guess I'll have to tell that joke to my Serbian boss tomorrow 11111111
I said having a caster without accent LOOKS (or sounds?) more professional. Is your boss a professional football commentator?
 

United Nationsaoewc

Active Member
Jul 6, 2018
51
72
33
I said having a caster without accent LOOKS (or sounds?) more professional. Is your boss a professional football commentator?
No. Didn't you see the plenty of 11s behind that though?

EDIT: btw how exactly does the word 'looks/sounds' make your argument less senseless?
 
Last edited:

Netherlandsgmischa

Known Member
Oct 21, 2013
236
141
48
Voobly
gmischa
View profile
Ladder
RM - 1v1
Rating
1834
Wins
619
Losses
610
Streak
-1
I dont quite see why native is more professional at all. Especially since there are lots of non-native speakers with a higher level than the average native. Besides the entire community knows all streamers accents anyway.
 

Aland Islandskw1k000000

Well Known Pikeman
Feb 18, 2015
834
276
78
Voobly
kw1k
View profile
Ladder
RM - Team Games
Rating
1696
Wins
83
Losses
74
Streak
-2
All the non-native English speakers will have a certain accent but as long as they are fluent and clear I fail to see what is the problem other than just not at all being open to the fact that people's accent differ.

In AOC we have so many non-native English streamers whose English is perfectly understandable like Nili, Katsuni, Genette, Memb, Blabkadder, Tatoh (presently), Odettte, MBL, Viper and many others.

So what is the issue other than having a prejudice.
 
Likes: vblytmp

UnknownMaSmOrRa

Champion
Bronze Supporter
Sep 24, 2012
1,363
523
133
Since when is your level of english tied to your country of origin?
Hmm...Since forever?

Are we really going to debate whether native english speakers are more proficient at english than non-native english speakers? Of course they are. How would they not? They speak english since they were born! It's only natural they are better at it.

Think of it this way:
In terms of fluidity of speech, smoothness, vocabulary wise (all things that are incredibly important for a caster) who out of the current non-native english streamers speaks better english than T90, Killer_b, or Zero? I can't think of anyone.

Besides the entire community knows all streamers accents anyway.
But that's exactly the point.
ECL doesn't want to cater *just* to the community, they also want to cater to the casual viewer who never saw an AoE stream in his life before.

I for one agree with the rule 100%.
Thing is there are people who are not bothered by a foreign accent and there are at least just as many people that really are bothered by a foreign accent.
If you put a native english speaker in the casting booth, you know that at least no one is going to be bothered by the caster’s accent.
If you put a non-native english speaker in the casting booth you run the risk of alienating those casual viewers who don't like to hear foreign accents.

I for one am not bothered anymore by any of the current streamers' accents because I've grown used to it.
But a casual viewer might not want to give it a second chance.
 
Last edited:

Netherlandsgmischa

Known Member
Oct 21, 2013
236
141
48
Voobly
gmischa
View profile
Ladder
RM - 1v1
Rating
1834
Wins
619
Losses
610
Streak
-1
Why do we care some people get bothered? People always complain about everything anyway. I can imagine some british people might get bothered by an american accent and vice versa.

And about professionalism, most universities in the world offer english lectures by non-native english speakers so it has nothing to do with professionalism imo. Its all about fluency.
 
Dec 28, 2015
8
16
3
Thing is there are people who are not bothered by a foreign accent and there are at least just as many people that really are bothered by a foreign accent.
If you put a native english speaker in the casting booth, you know that at least no one is going to be bothered by the accent of the caster.
If you put a non-native english speaker in the casting booth you run the risk of alienating those casual viewers who don't like to hear foreign accents.
What do you even mean by "foreign"? The AoE community is overwhelmingly not from English speaking countries, so this only makes sense from your own narrow "Anglo-centric" point of view.
 

United Nationsaoewc

Active Member
Jul 6, 2018
51
72
33
@MaSmOrRa While all you did was stating the obvious, and while it might be reasonable for escape to care about mere viewer numbers more than anything else, I would like to hear your own personal opinion on

Why I as a community member should give a shit about anyone of those people who are bothered by foreign accents to the point where they tune off.

You cant tell me that you genuinely believe those are the kinds of people that care more bout the game itself, and having a fun time with the active community.
 

Aland Islandskw1k000000

Well Known Pikeman
Feb 18, 2015
834
276
78
Voobly
kw1k
View profile
Ladder
RM - Team Games
Rating
1696
Wins
83
Losses
74
Streak
-2
Are we really going to debate whether native english speakers are more proficient at english than non-native english speakers? Of course they are. How would they not? They speak english since they were born! It's only natural they are better at it.
If you pick a random native english speaker vs a random person from non0english speaking country then yes, in general native speakers are going to be more proficient.

BUT if you talk about particular individuals then one can be as proficient and fluent as a native speaker in any language. So in particular cases your assertion does not hold true.

Language proficiency required also varies depending on for what it is used for. None of non-native speakers here are going to argue a case in a court of law in English. For AOE2 streams all of them poses enough vocabulary & fluency.
 
Likes: gmischa

BelgiumBeinchisme

Active Member
Apr 12, 2018
35
100
38
31
When I first started watching aoe2 videos and streams, I preferred the ones of T90 & ZeroEmpires over for example Memb and Nili exactly because of the understandability of the language. When you watch a stream, it's generally free time and then you don't want to try too hard to understand the caster (yes, I'm lazy during my time off). It's hard enough already to learn the lingo (stay Tunis - jebait - kappa - ...)

By now, I am used to most aoe2 casters and I really appreciate their casting characters, so it is no issue anymore. However, if you try to get new people interested I think it's a good idea to remove as much hurdles as possible and for me language can clearly be a hurdle.
 

Aland Islandskw1k000000

Well Known Pikeman
Feb 18, 2015
834
276
78
Voobly
kw1k
View profile
Ladder
RM - Team Games
Rating
1696
Wins
83
Losses
74
Streak
-2
nobody dislikes native English speakers.
Broad generalizations like this are almost always false.

Are you really going to argue that native speakers of different countries, different parts in the same country don't differ in accent?

Broadly Welsh, Scottish, English people all have different accents. Americans have different accent than British . Even in America someone from Texas has a different accent than someone from New York. Different people from different backgrounds have different accent.

It would be fine if we were talking about fluency but all the current crop of ECL streamers are fluent. Accents as I said will vary and will be different even within native speakers.
 

UnknownMaSmOrRa

Champion
Bronze Supporter
Sep 24, 2012
1,363
523
133
What do you even mean by "foreign"? The AoE community is overwhelmingly not from English speaking countries, so this only makes sense from your own narrow "Anglo-centric" point of view.
Well, the international language of the world just so happens to be English. I did not choose it myself.
If it was up to me it should be Portuguese. But sadly it isn't...
If you watch the stream of an international e-sports event, the main stream will be in English.
It's just the way it is...

@MaSmOrRa
Why I as a community member should give a shit about anyone of those people who are bothered by foreign accents to the point where they tune off.
Sadly, the world doesn't revolve around you though.
I'm sure you don't care about other people's feelings towards the stream. Me neither.
But then again, we are not the ones spending 100 hours a week working on the streams in order to make them as appealing as possible to as many people as possible. I have the feeling those who have all that work do care.
 
Last edited:

LatviaklavskisLV

Known Member
Aug 1, 2016
247
173
48
Why do we care some people get bothered? People always complain about everything anyway. I can imagine some british people might get bothered by an american accent and vice versa.

And about professionalism, most universities in the world offer english lectures by non-native english speakers so it has nothing to do with professionalism imo. Its all about fluency.
i'm sorry, but what are you even saying? The majority of professional esport is built upon professional casters with all around great speaking and presenting skills, escape is trying to raise the ladder, instead of appreciating that you are trying to push us back to "we do what we want" situation, which really does not have the intent to actually represent an organisation.
Also saying people always complain about everything anyway is the dumbest thing you can say, by that logic, as long as we haven't buried the channel, we might aswell stream in 480p, because drawing a line is unnecessary anyway right? Not like criticism matters or anything, people will complain anyway.
 

United Nationsaoewc

Active Member
Jul 6, 2018
51
72
33
Sadly, the world doesn't revolve around you though.
I'm sure you don't care about other people's feelings towards the stream. Me neither.
But then again, we are not the ones spending 100 hours a week working on the streams to make them as appealing as possible to as many people as possible. I have the feeling those who have all that work do care.
I don't even know if hereby you want to agree or disagree with me on that. It reads as if you wanted to disagree with me, yet you paraphrased what I wrote, and what you wrote earlier.

I'm not even for or against said rule yet (and noone waits for my approval of it). So if the world were to revolve around me, it would probably stop turning when it comes to that issue 11
 

United KingdomCicero

Known Member
Jul 9, 2017
76
185
48
I think it's unfair to suggest that Escape are pandering to hateful/prejudiced feedback here. (Or to imply that this has anything to do with a preference toward certain accents.)

As much as I am consistently amazed (being English myself) by anyone who can commentate so well on something as complex as AoE in a language other than their own, I am sure there are some who will genuinely find non-native speakers harder to follow in general. (Especially if they are new to the game and therefore struggle to follow what's going on regardless.)

For this reason, it kind of makes sense to pair up casters as per the rule if possible - which can be easily done since there are plenty of native English speaking casters to go round. We will still see just as much of Nili and Memb as the other casters, and those cancerous people in YouTube comments (a small but loud minority) will be just as miserable as they were before.
 
Last edited:

UnknownMaSmOrRa

Champion
Bronze Supporter
Sep 24, 2012
1,363
523
133
If becoming an esport means giving up on non native casters. Id rather aoe2 stay in relative obscurity for the remainder of its days
You see using hyperboles doesn't get us anywhere.
I didn't see a single comment in this thread saying we should get rid of non-native casters. Did you?

Some of us said that having at least 1 native speaker per stream could avoid creating an extra hurdle to the casual viewer who happens to tune in to an AoE stream for the first time.
That seems perfectly reasonable to me...
 
Last edited:

FranceTarsiz

Longswordman
Feb 27, 2017
330
654
108
26
Reykjavik
Keep in mind that the target audience here is international, so you should expect that it is actually in majority non native. While it is obvious that native speakers will have a better grasp of English (after all, that's the definition), pace and accent from said native speakers can make them harder to understand by non native audiences. Despite having myself a reasonable level of English, I have sometimes a harder time understanding English/Irish/Australian speakers than bilingual Europeans (same thing at meetups, sorry Carlini, I absolutely love your accent but if I nod stupidly it's just because I can't get a word of what you're saying).

That being said, I think the current array of native speakers is perfectly understandable and I think the rule is reasonable, even if Memb and Nili are easy to understand.
 

Time

Your time
G M T
Your zone

Upcoming Events

Talk of the Empire
Wednesday 20:00 (GMT +02:00)
w/ Nili, Zak & Nicov
ECL Africa 3v3
Saturday 16:00 (GMT +02:00)
ECL Africa 3v3 Round of 8
ECL Africa 3v3
October 6th 16:00 (GMT +02:00)
ECL Africa 3v3 Semi Finals & Grand Final
Halloween Party - 12 Hour Stream!
October 26th 21:00 (GMT +02:00)
Halloween Stream

Age Of Empires On Twitch

There are in total 26 streamers online
Click here for details
Age of Empires II 298 viewers
Age of Empires 119 viewers
age of empires ii 80 viewers
Age of Empires III: The Asian Dynasties 25 viewers
Age of Empires II 25 viewers
Top