ECL hype issue

May 30, 2018
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From now on i will put just ECL LIVE in my title, and when i put on youtube i will put ECL South East Asia 3v3 Series #1, this is what i can do to do not spoil. After they broadcast the games on the weekend i will change the titles on youtube, also i won´t add thumbnails till they broadcast.

Also i won´t share in socials any team, just something like IM LIVE WITH ECL 3v3 SouthEast Asia... something like that.

I can´t do more to help with the spoiler thing.

Still any tournament live is much better than recorded games, but need to work on it ofc.
Thanks Memb! Always looking out the community.

I agree with live tournaments being better but at the moment - in my opinion - it doesn't look like there is any structure to when the games are played so it has been a bit difficult to follow.
 
Mar 20, 2015
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This policy was not good for Escape, but the policy change was done for a few reasons.
1). Lots of complaints about lack of hype because of no live games.
2). Making it okay for Chinese streamers to cover their matches at a time that suits them (without having one rule for China and another for everyone else).
3). To increase overall viewership. If the views aren’t on our channel then yeah that’s not good for us. However, the KPI from Microsoft is overall viewership. If we increase overall viewership then we are delivering on what we were contracted to do.

We could cover the live games, but then we would also be repeating content and ruining it for ourselves when we do our back to back Saturday streams.
We are currently sticking to the Saturday rec game streams so that we can:
1). Provide consistent and complete coverage of the event.
2). Allow those that missed the live games to see all of the games in order without breaks. Many matches have been at bad times already.

Hope that clears things up.
 
Last edited:

FinlandTempires

Active Member
Mar 16, 2013
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This policy was not good for Escape, but the policy change was done for a few reasons.
1). Lots of complaints about lack of hype because of no live games.
2). Making it okay for Chinese streamers to cover their matches at a time that suits them (without having one rule for China and another for everyone else).
3). To increase overall viewership. If the views aren’t on our channel then yeah that’s not good for us. However, the KPI from Microsoft is overall viewership. If we increase overall viewership then we are delivering on what we were contracted to do.
Do you have way to estimate Chinese viewers for ECL matches?
 
May 30, 2018
13
32
18
This policy was not good for Escape, but the policy change was done for a few reasons.
1). Lots of complaints about lack of hype because of no live games.
2). Making it okay for Chinese streamers to cover their matches at a time that suits them (without having one rule for China and another for everyone else).
3). To increase overall viewership. If the views aren’t on our channel then yeah that’s not good for us. However, the KPI from Microsoft is overall viewership. If we increase overall viewership then we are delivering on what we were contracted to do.

We could cover the live games, but then we would also be repeating content and ruining it for ourselves when we do our back to back Saturday streams.
We are currently sticking to the Saturday rec game streams so that we can:
1). Provide consistent and complete coverage of the event.
2). Allow those that missed the live games to see all of the games in order without breaks. Many matches have been at bad times already.

Hope that clears things up.

Would you consider asking the live streamers to not add names to their titles and just state the round name instead? I think it would help keep the hype for the escape stream whilst not hindering the live streams either. Unless there's something else I'm not seeing
 

GermanyNili_AoE

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Apr 24, 2010
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We could cover the live games, but then we would also be repeating content and ruining it for ourselves when we do our back to back Saturday streams.
We are currently sticking to the Saturday rec game streams so that we can:
1). Provide consistent and complete coverage of the event.
2). Allow those that missed the live games to see all of the games in order without breaks. Many matches have been at bad times already.

Hope that clears things up.
Why not cast the games live and create a cut video to broadcast Saturdays?
 
Jul 30, 2017
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Call me weird - probably I am ^^ - but I really enjoy that Escape is casting the recs at the weekends. :smile: For me it has so many more advantages and makes it way more enjoyable to watch than having games spread wildly around the week. It is so much more reliable and time efficient and overall more enjoyable. I'd like to compare it to people who are into football and look forward to the weekend to watch the games. And the live casting of the recs gives it the live feeling and the community feeling that makes it so much more fun than just watching a rec/vod.
Over the last weeks I have avoided a lot of streams and aoezone to not get spoilt. And it worked really well (until my favourite hippo uploaded the finals to yt xD - How dare you! niliKappa ).
But yeah, as I said, I am weird xD
 

United StatesOrnLu528

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In theory we could, but that also means being available 24/7 at the drop of a hat. Driving to the studio for a bo3 at 10am when our regular programming is 6pm-11pm isn’t very reasonable. Especially if it’s supposed to be a day off
Is it not possible to require players/teams to schedule their matches for some time during your work week during normal hours? I'm sure it would be possible to come to reasonable times for teams if you give them say - 2pm to 8pm Monday through Friday (or whatever you want, pending time zone differences) as a time frame to begin their matches. Especially if these matches were planned further in advance, I think those are incredibly reasonable parameters to set for teams. Then, if the matches are planned further in advance, you guys would be able to better hype up the live matches, as well as prepare some fancy content for your studio. Then, as Nili suggested, you can just do a cut of your live casts and broadcast them all together on Saturday.

There are probably other alterations that you could do to the format to better suit live broadcasting like bo5s replacing bo3s and bo7s replacing bo5s, but idk if it's a good idea to do such changes when we are already so far into the tournament. Obviously stuff you can do for future events!
 

JapanMusashi

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May 1, 2018
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Is it not possible to require players/teams to schedule their matches for some time during your work week during normal hours? I'm sure it would be possible to come to reasonable times for teams if you give them say - 2pm to 8pm Monday through Friday (or whatever you want, pending time zone differences) as a time frame to begin their matches. Especially if these matches were planned further in advance, I think those are incredibly reasonable parameters to set for teams. Then, if the matches are planned further in advance, you guys would be able to better hype up the live matches, as well as prepare some fancy content for your studio. Then, as Nili suggested, you can just do a cut of your live casts and broadcast them all together on Saturday.

There are probably other alterations that you could do to the format to better suit live broadcasting like bo5s replacing bo3s and bo7s replacing bo5s, but idk if it's a good idea to do such changes when we are already so far into the tournament. Obviously stuff you can do for future events!
Agree -- I mean, it's Escape's tournament. It's clear that you've KPIs with Microsoft, but you're doing the organization, material setup, etc. You should profit from it as much as possible.

This can mean:
- Asking for all matches to be scheduled at a time when the Escape Studio is open -- (if too unreasonable, you can make it from 4pm, or 5pm for exceptional days). But not 10am.
- Again, for every other big tournament lately (KOTD, NAC2, HC2), the semis and finals were live on the weekend. While each Escape series doesn't have a 10K price pool, there's still a lot of money in for players to justify, say, take a Saturday/Sunday afternoon to play the final live.

If you make these changes there will be haters, etc. like always, but it's not unreasonable to ask and it's the fair thing for Escape to get a bit of control over this back.

Look, it's great that we've now a studio fully dedicated to Age of Empires -- we want you to do well! It would be the best for the community. Don't be afraid of milking a bit more your own tournament :smile:
 

JapanMusashi

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May 1, 2018
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Also, even -- You could say that finals should always be e.g. on Sundays at 5pm or something, and that they're live and exclusively streamed by Escape. (Also in Spanish -- as lately the Escape ES is MIA). You can leave an exception for China.

Again, all players agreed this for KOTD, HC2, etc. You could say "But it's a 4v4, it's harder to schedule" -- true, but if they know in advance + with those price pools it's fair game.

Players/other casters might complain, but nobody could agree that it's the right thing for a business like Escape (not a charity, a business) to make the most of its property.

So .. In general:
- You started with one approach -- it had its popular and unpopular, good and bad sides
- You switched based on the feedback you received -- but, again, there's the good/bad side around it
- Nothing should stop you from switching again -- and, again, for small steps

+ Then you can schedule a lot more Escape TV programming around it. Like, interview the winners live after the series (or finals), use that as a compilation for week-day programming, etc.

Wish you guys all the best, don't be afraid to piss some people off :biggrin:
 

IndiaTop_Shot

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Sep 5, 2013
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I think there are two issues:-
1- The tournament is too long to maintain hype.
2- Not streaming live games.

The other tournaments like KOTD2 and NAC2, both were short and had live streams and hence were extremely successful in terms of viewership. The tournament being so long doesnt guarantee that players will be able to play every weekend. Hence not all games can be streamed live.
Though the matches are not long i.e BO9-11 etc, but that doesnt takes away the fact that the length of the tournament isnt normal for an AoE tournament.
Maybe for future tournaments escape will look at these two aspects and hopefully we will see better viewership. Also it would be great if someone could get in the chinese viewership numbers.
 
May 30, 2018
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I can understand why escape allowed live viewing and it was done to help the community but the fact that the games aren't played according to a structure means all the hype that would be generated from the games being live is somewhat lost.

By the sounds of it organising a player schedule is a full time job on its own and with so many games maybe not the most practical.

I know I'm beating a dead horse here but the only real issue i see here is not being able to avoid spoilers for the people wanting to watch on the weekend. Maybe that % is too small to consider but I'm sure it would help the escape stream just to ask live casters not to add player names to their titles when streaming/posting at least until the escape broadcast has been run.
 

United Stateslessthanthree

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Dec 1, 2016
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I can understand why escape allowed live viewing and it was done to help the community but the fact that the games aren't played according to a structure means all the hype that would be generated from the games being live is somewhat lost.

By the sounds of it organising a player schedule is a full time job on its own and with so many games maybe not the most practical.

I know I'm beating a dead horse here but the only real issue i see here is not being able to avoid spoilers for the people wanting to watch on the weekend. Maybe that % is too small to consider but I'm sure it would help the escape stream just to ask live casters not to add player names to their titles when streaming/posting at least until the escape broadcast has been run.

I mean the easiest way to avoid being spoiled is not look at the brackets. you have to look for results, they aren't plastered everywhere.
 

Nepalarchxeon

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Jan 6, 2014
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It's a really long tournament. Very hard to sustain the level excitement for such a long time.

Lately I have skipped a lot of ECL matches (due to different reasons including not being that hyped) but the fight for second place seems to be getting very interesting. Would love to see some sort of a show where they analyze each team needs to do (or chances).. to make it.. like in sports tournaments.
 

United Stateslessthanthree

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Dec 1, 2016
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Yeah because seeing MBLvTATOH ECL 1V1 final on a thumbnail days before the weekend stream doesn't spoil anything at all
right right fair enough - Being American, we don't read much, and a title of that length most of us would probably struggle to finish, so its never bothered me XD
 

Unknownorangereaper

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Aug 21, 2014
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I think ECL/ZeroEmpires is going too far with the 'litsen to your audience'. You'll have to to draw the line somewhere. It's your event and you need to decide/measure its success.

Personally I prefer the weekend rec-cast, predictable and I can organize my life around it. At the least make the finals as Sunday only rec-cast event.
 
Jul 30, 2017
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1- The tournament is too long to maintain hype.
Well, it is the league. Not a tournament in the traditional way. It is not supposed to generate hype (Like you said, it just isn't possible). It is supposed to create something steady that is both reliable for sponsors and players and viewers and so on - that's how I understood it.
You can compare it to a football league for example. Noone gets hyped when Arsenal plays against Newcastle. People get hyped when there are short tournaments happening like world championships. or some finals.
You hardly can compare hype levels of ecl with something like nac, kotd or nc.
 

Finlandbuhanisson

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May 29, 2015
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I dont think length is the problem with hype, but the fact that its so complicated to follow. I get hyped if Brighton palys Huddersfield cause its goddamn premier league, and every goal and every point is incredibly valuable. If I see Heresy play aM, I only get headache trying to figure out what whoever needs to get what in this thingy, and what stage is this really, and what does the updated bracket look like right now if I can find it anywhere, or if I can figure it out from the available clues out there somewhere, maybe on membs or nilis channel.
 

GermanyAceW

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May 30, 2018
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I dont think length is the problem with hype, but the fact that its so complicated to follow. I get hyped if Brighton palys Huddersfield cause its goddamn premier league, and every goal and every point is incredibly valuable. If I see Heresy play aM, I only get headache trying to figure out what whoever needs to get what in this thingy, and what stage is this really, and what does the updated bracket look like right now if I can find it anywhere, or if I can figure it out from the available clues out there somewhere, maybe on membs or nilis channel.
I agree 100%.

My bad english incomming:

The most confusing part for me is always the civ pool. I don't really get it..
First I liked the idea that the civs you can choose are civs that are historically connected to a certain country/area due to its history.

But then in 3v3s or 4v4s Team are allowed to pick any civ they want if they fulfill some requirements?!.

So why do we a a civ pool in the first place if team always can choose the strongest civs from the pool and then just add other civs that are not in the pool?

This is so confusing and I fail to see a caster who can explain this properly.
 

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