Do we need AoEZone?

[Karlslunde]

Just posting this in the world of discord, facebook and other social "forums".
I am putting quite some effort in keeping aoezone alive and i just wondering; do we need aoezone these days?

I would like to shut it down and get rid of the "keep it online" meme... i pay some $ to keep this site online and a really appreciate the premium members that are supporting the site... thank you very much! You make me keep it going.

The main question is; do we need aoezone... these days with discord (i feel everybody is there) and all other social websites.... do we really need aoezone?

Well.. i just want your opinion... i am not going to shut it down tomorrow, but i cant deny that have hit my mind... just close it... but its a bit too long story from the zone.com days and... well... i love this game..

But if aoezone is not needed anymore... i am really concider closing it down... you know... i am getting old... no... (older) 11 .... and the time is .... yeah,,, want to spend with family and stuff..so i bet you know...

How would the world be WITHOUT aoezone? let me know pls.... cuz i am considering closing it down...

Thx, _PkZ_

If you come to the conclusion that you need the site off your shoulders (understandable for your mentioned reasons), then please explore options for some other admins to take over. Maybe a collaboration of the top streamers presently, or perhaps microsoft will help financing it. This site is extremely relevant and it helps bring all aoe information in one forum.

Best regards,
a longtime fan and old school voobly player

 

[lecracheursagacite]

Maybe a collaboration of the top streamers presently, or perhaps microsoft will help financing it.

Unfortunately both of those options seem like they could result in the site losing some of what makes people want to keep it.

 

Unfortunately both of those options seem like they could result in the site losing some of what makes people want to keep it.

It would be more likely that the SiegeEngineers as a developer collective would host it somewhere as that Microsoft or some Streamers would take care of hosting this. MSFT would probably close it and tell the people to use their official forum.

 

[Karlslunde]

Unfortunately both of those options seem like they could result in the site losing some of what makes people want to keep it.

How does help with financing affect the quality of the site, if most of admins are still working here?
It would only be so that Pkz could avoid paying. So if microsoft/streamer would help with some finance but still let the site be run as today, then how does that make it so the site is suddenly unwanted?

 

[lecracheursagacite]

So if microsoft/streamer would help with some finance but still let the site be run as today, then how does that make it so the site is suddenly unwanted?

I am just saying this is not an assumption you can make.

 

[TheShaunPlays]

Just posting this in the world of discord, facebook and other social "forums".
I am putting quite some effort in keeping aoezone alive and i just wondering; do we need aoezone these days?

I would like to shut it down and get rid of the "keep it online" meme... i pay some $ to keep this site online and a really appreciate the premium members that are supporting the site... thank you very much! You make me keep it going.

The main question is; do we need aoezone... these days with discord (i feel everybody is there) and all other social websites.... do we really need aoezone?

Well.. i just want your opinion... i am not going to shut it down tomorrow, but i cant deny that have hit my mind... just close it... but its a bit too long story from the zone.com days and... well... i love this game..

But if aoezone is not needed anymore... i am really concider closing it down... you know... i am getting old... no... (older) 11 .... and the time is .... yeah,,, want to spend with family and stuff..so i bet you know...

How would the world be WITHOUT aoezone? let me know pls.... cuz i am considering closing it down...

Thx, _PkZ_

I'm new to being active on AOEZone, so I can't speak on it's use. However, if you do want to call it quits it might be better to sell it to Microsoft or someone as other forums are pretty dead compared to this platform and you could make a little bit money back on the years you've spent keeping this alive.

 

[teutonic_tanks]

Aside from using aoezone as a calender to know when important games are happening, for which you mostly use liquipedia nowadays anyways, i don't think aoezone is needed anymore.
Barely any members are online anymore and the forum is pretty much dead, especially if you compare it to how active aoeforums, discord and reddit are. Even some announcement posts aren't made here anymore (just think about nili).
Why did this happen? There was always a tradition on gatekeeping on aoezone, shitting on new players, new ideas, people posting their recs, allthough they aren't 2k4 or just generally new things and people found places where they aren't shitted as much as here, especially aoeforums filled the niche for new players to voice their opnion, even if it might be a whacky one. Same goes for some tournament hosts/coordinators, who got fed up with the toxicity and just stopped caring.
Could this have been prevented? To some extend I do think so. If aoezone had some better moderation to deal with some people trashing everybody and everything (or as they are calling it "critical thinking"), then one would get rid of at least some of the gatekeeping and was this place would have been more beginner friendly,

Anyways, aoezone was sometimes very nice to read, thanks for providing this service Pkz and it's not the end of the world if you stop it

 

[MembTV]

Aside from using aoezone as a calender to know when important games are happening, for which you mostly use liquipedia nowadays anyways, i don't think aoezone is needed anymore.
Barely any members are online anymore and the forum is pretty much dead, especially if you compare it to how active aoeforums, discord and reddit are. Even some announcement posts aren't made here anymore (just think about nili).
Why did this happen? There was always a tradition on gatekeeping on aoezone, shitting on new players, new ideas, people posting their recs, allthough they aren't 2k4 or just generally new things and people found places where they aren't shitted as much as here, especially aoeforums filled the niche for new players to voice their opnion, even if it might be a whacky one. Same goes for some tournament hosts/coordinators, who got fed up with the toxicity and just stopped caring.
Could this have been prevented? To some extend I do think so. If aoezone had some better moderation to deal with some people trashing everybody and everything (or as they are calling it "critical thinking"), then one would get rid of at least some of the gatekeeping and was this place would have been more beginner friendly,

Anyways, aoezone was sometimes very nice to read, thanks for providing this service Pkz and it's not the end of the world if you stop it

i think he already stopped it -.-

 

[_Andrew]

Don't make me call Edie here to singlehandedly keep this forum alive. Because if anyone can save AoEZone, he's the man for the job

 

[Tuunbaq]

The most memorable post for me in the last couple years was "Market trading vs selling" by RicoJay13.

Market Trading Vs Selling: An Analysis

2nd Youtube video complete and dives into the economics behind Market Trading vs just selling excess wood for gold with the same population. Enjoy:

www.aoezone.net

 

[Drunken_master]

Keep in mind aoczone has like 15 years posting history.
I would say its still needed just as aoc archive.
The cost of running a site like that is very low anyway, its not like pkz is wasting money here

 

[siestes]

I would say its still needed just as aoc archive.

If only half the rec links were not dead

 

[YodaIamm]

If only half the rec links were not dead

older version recs dont work on DE anyway

 

[LeoMontero]

i think is needed, i myself dont go to reddit, to discord, only here.
but you have a point that is less activ than before. i would love that every tournament is anounced here and more talk about the games.

 

[Nicov]

Let toxic users take over a forum for years and give them the freedom to talk **** about tons of top players/big streamers/tournaments organizers day and night with no moderation at all.

Here is the result. And well deserved.

 

[Black Adder]

Let toxic users take over a forum for years and give them the freedom to talk **** about tons of top players/big streamers/tournaments organizers day and night with no moderation at all.

Here is the result. And well deserved.

Problem is that many "toxic" (it doesn't matter if it really is or isn't and it's just uncomfortable reality people have learnt to try and cancel and therefore label as such) posts have been met with quite vicious, nasty "positivity" (often just plain, empty fanboyism with no grounds in reality than wishful thinking, sometimes plain agenda behind it, or being straight "toxic" from the other side). As in, there being no difference between rabid fanboys and trolls. And so it obviously escalates, both ways, as both sides have vested interest in making it so, there's no or little middle ground there. And that pushes people away, because no one wants to be viciously attacked for their opinions or just simply posting a thing, both ways, on a video game forum no less, which is supposed to be fun pastime. And that's how discussion dies, and extremism rises.

So yes, lack of moderation. Both sides. With of course just general unreasonableness of people, but that is inherent, unfortunately.

With advent of streaming and Discord, people found a way to avoid facing things (and often just the reality) they don't like by being offered all the various echo-chambers they can hide in and live in their bubble. When AoEZone was practically the only place to communicate, they had to communicate here, and mostly somewhat healthy exchange of opinions happened, because you would have a spectrum of people responding, mediating the discussion (though AoEII community has been problematic in very strongly backing certain points of view at the expense of others long-term, which is part of the problem as well, escalating in time). Now they don't, and so the mediation influence abates, and things spiral, as more people's thresholds are going to be reached, which in turn again influences others reaching theirs, etc.

Result is you have dozens smaller communities that do not interact with each other, which then of course in general challenges the overall "community feel" (because suddenly you have dozens of "communities" within the supposed "big one," instead of just the "one", with each being quite different and specific, and, very often somewhat adamant about their views, which precludes their general (amicable) interaction, same as here), which is why you'll see more misunderstandings (as in people not understanding others' points of view), and posts that things are not the same anymore, that community is not what it used to be - well of course, because it truly isn't. Community that built all that we have in AoE, as we knew it, is dead. Straight as that. And has been for a long time. Which is a shame (at least from my, maybe old-schooly, point of view). It is a different beast now. And a significant part of it has been just changed from a community relationship to a producer-customer relationship, which is enough for many, but it also limits the actual community interactions.

The community has done this to itself, but to a degree also in a very different way than suggested, which is of course right as well - and that is by actually doing the opposite, too - ignoring and placating uncomfortable realities, letting things free-fall and reign free. And they have escalated here.

 

[The Bloodless]

Let toxic users take over a forum for years and give them the freedom to talk **** about tons of top players/big streamers/tournaments organizers day and night with no moderation at all.

Here is the result. And well deserved.

Always nice to see the scheduled posts on Aoezone from people hating aoezone! See you guys next week.

In all honesty no single platform is needed for aoe2 except steam / the game itself

 

[OnlyMouseShift]

Let toxic users take over a forum for years and give them the freedom to talk **** about tons of top players/big streamers/tournaments organizers day and night with no moderation at all.

Here is the result. And well deserved.

I couldnt agree more with this post. AOEZone at this point is 90% 10-15 toxic people that represent literally nobody in the community, bashing and bitching about content creators, devs and the playerbase like their opinion matters at all to anyone. And the worst part is that rather than ignore these posts, every time some kind of drama happens, pro players and casters come here to give his excuses and beg for mercy, just because people who hold no power at all in the game are complaining about something, like they are some kind of moral council of the community.
For me AOEZone should only exist as a place to announce and organize tournaments. Nothing else. If you wanna discuss about the game, you should go to the official forums, reddit or any big community, where these people realize that what they think has the same value as anyone else. And pro players/casters should stop giving these people attention at all, and replying to every whim they have against them. And stop pretending that moderating their awful, mean posts isnt censoring, just some human decency. Because at this point literally no one wants to come here anymore.

 

[_Andrew]

Let toxic users take over a forum for years and give them the freedom to talk **** about tons of top players/big streamers/tournaments organizers day and night with no moderation at all.

Here is the result. And well deserved.

More moderation almost never works well.

Anyone who was around for Dreams' tenure as mod can attest to that.

 

[USC_kiky]

I miss DreaIVIS. Does he know that Finland has one of the strongest national teams in AoE now? He played in SY Nations Cup 1.

 

[aromatic]

Let toxic users take over a forum for years and give them the freedom to talk **** about tons of top players/big streamers/tournaments organizers day and night with no moderation at all.

Here is the result. And well deserved.

Just because this forum is not an echo chamber for AOE prominent personalities, its not toxic.
Its only of the last forums where differences of opinions are expressed/discussed.

 

[Halleju]

Let toxic users take over a forum for years and give them the freedom to talk **** about tons of top players/big streamers/tournaments organizers day and night with no moderation at all.

Here is the result. And well deserved.

Bullshit. Technologies change over time. Forums are simply outdated, because you have way better possibilities nowadays to get infos, learn how to play or get in touch with the community. I know dozens of forums shut down over the last years, no matter if they were tight moderated or not.
If you don't get new users because they prefer to go with time, a forum dies slowly. It happens the same with games.

 

[LeoMontero]

Let toxic users take over a forum for years and give them the freedom to talk **** about tons of top players/big streamers/tournaments organizers day and night with no moderation at all.

Here is the result. And well deserved.

Like a good argentinian, I myself am argentinian, Nicov want more moderation, a big brother that controls everything. For me, its not the way.

 

[Zbyszek]

People feel cosy in their echochambers. If you see no value in conflicting opinions then its much more comfortable to surround yourself with people that resonate your own views. Its a global phenomenon especially affecting the people that spend much time online.

It breeds a society of whiners that cant even stand someone having a different opinion; let alone being told they are wrong. Many cant even formulate a coherent argument. And with discords around and being indirectly necessitated by the fact that aoe2 DE has shitty clan/community-features you got competition.

The internet is practically unlimited which should be a great thing. But the issue is no matter how stupid your point is you will always find someone who agrees with you and convincing you that you are right.

15 years back the internet was definetely not less toxic 11

 

[pumukel]

I don't think moderation makes such a big difference. A good community produces good moderators, not vice versa.

Everything has it's time and place, it's environment to thrive. AoEZone played it's part in AoE's history and I feel lucky I was around. But maybe dusk has come. It's just the inevitable impermanence of it all. We grow older, new life rises.

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