Current Situation on Aoe4 and Aoe2

[sheeesh]

the big question is how long can AoE4 maintain all the money pumping in the game while flying low in terms of viewership. I don't think it's a secret anymore, pro-scene dies rapidly as soon as soon as the pond dries and there is more fish elsewhere. This boost given to AoE4 upon release will sometime end and it will be really hard for a small community to maintain the current state.
With how things are going ''The day the drove AoE4 down'' is likely marked in some business calendars already, as the day the valve is closed.

 

[MongolTCRush]

Well I didn't say people can't enjoy watching aoe4. Just many players including Viper said themself, it can be really fun to play, but it's hard to watch. What I meant is not me or you enjoying it, but on average people enjoy playing it more, while aoe2 I often would say even the opposite, many people watch it and do not play or at least do not play actively.

As for new meta, well for sure, new game and then add tons of changes every 1-2 months, which shifts meta. But at same time game shifting a lot is not neccessary good. Especially for those playing less.

However I would say even in aoe2 there are some stuff that pro players do not use enough or started using more lately. Is for sure much more difficult for 1v1, but in tournament games as BOA there are stuff to invent still, but sure thing, aoe2 is there for 20 years, is hard to surprise with something. However its there for 20 years not without reason though.

Feel like aoe4 just missed it's hype train, they maybe could catch quite some aoe2 players watching it if it was better at release, so many people dropped it and won't give a second shot, maybe during RB some will

Totally agree that aoe4 missed an opportunity at release, and even though most stuff has been fixed that people wanted.. I don't think it will ever be as popular as aoe2, and I don't think that's a secret!

But it sure is disheartening to come on here (I actually came here today wanting to post about the Montezuma (spelling?) Campaign from Aoe2) and read 3 different comments saying "only idiots still enjoy aoe4

Aoe2 will always be more popular no doubt, and I can understand the frustration that aoe4 is getting funding that to some seems unreasonable, I just hope people direct their frustrations at the people who can make a difference about that.

Maybe I'm taking things too personally, but reading what seems to be a direct attack on the people who just enjoy the game made me not want to participate in Aoe2 campaign discussion, and I know I'm not the only one.

Let's vent our frustration where it matters! And let each other enjoy what we enjoy! (Not directing this at you)

 

[NextLever]

Hehe, funny how things have now changed to "of course aoe2 will have more viewers and players".

 

[MongolTCRush]

Hehe, funny how things have now changed to "of course aoe2 will have more viewers and players".

It's never been anything else

With $1.5 million dollars in tournaments all but confirmed over the next 12 months.. I'm quite content with the stability aoe4 has.. it doesn't need to be more popular than Aoe2, or even on the same level as aoe1 which has more viewers in the last 12 months than both combined.

Personally.. I don't care if the game servers completely shut down one day.. I'm just happy I have something to enjoy for the moment.. and people like you seem to enjoy the subtle digs at me who is just a player who likes to play a different game, when your energy would much better be spent doing things that actually make a difference. It doesn't make your community look good, nor does it make me want to join your community one day if my game does shut down. (And it's not one sided, but "I've seen them do it too!!" Is a childish excuse)

Who knows, if tournaments die down in a few years it may even be unpopular enough to not get any support at all.. but aoe4 players don't have the same "loyalty" to their game as aoe2 players.. alot of us are looking forward to the release of stormgate in fact! and with the immediate future set in stone.. we have nothing we feel like we have "to hold onto or we might lose"

 

[Black Adder]

I think that the thing that is missing here is the aoe4 community doesn't want to be as big as the Aoe2 community.

While everyone can enjoy what they want and some of the dogged efforts are unnecessary as the game simply exists and is not going anywhere and you just have to accept the consequences (not saying be happy with) of the way Microsoft is handling things which hurt everyone with both games having serious effects on each other no one can deny, you know you don't have to read/take seriously anything written after this since it's clear, ocean-amount copium from someone who is refusing reality and is doing all kinds of mental somersaults to make things seem good and exactly as everyone wanted (yes, everyone wanted the game to fail, sure, makes sense, that's why you do things, especially megacorporations, to not meet expectations).

The reality is you cannot have small community and massive prizepools from sources that are currently interested only in business as they need revenue, and as soon as they get tired of basically donating money to people (or go bankrupt), the prizepools drop, and then players drop the game (as that is why many of them also switched to it in the first place, to milk it, because they have better ROI in it than in other games they played before, as realistically also due to its size, the game has very open chances for that, as you have a small group of dedicated top experts and then plenty places that can pick prizes for not that much effort (I don't mean to say they're not deserved, just realistically you see a lot of churn there due to the competition not being as strict) due to their height and therefore possible spread - that's what's keeping the competition going and interesting and alive; small prizepools cannot do that).

The game is legit kept up by the exorbitant prizepools and nothing else, it's a classic subsidy model, and if you think what you have now is a "healthy," natural playerbase, you are mistaken. It has deeper low than this it can go, and if even the big changes and fulfilling players' wishes (btw funny how these things are coming now and weren't part of the original game even though they had the same info and were steadfastly claiming how the game is community-based and made with community and influencers, etc., etc., right) do little to improve the situation, there's only so much more that can be done/can happen and you can hope for, because it's now simply the victim of its time - people already left, and they're not likely to come back, because they have another game to enjoy already - today you don't get second chances too much, in the big world you either hit or miss. Everyone probably wishes the game released in a state of like Season 3, but well, no backsies, unfortunately. Decisions were made and consequences are had. Can it be No Man's Sky 2? Considering the genre and nicheness, a new hype game coming up...

Anyone can enjoy what they want, have fun with your game, others will with theirs, criticise what you don't like, point out problems, effects, what's going on, support what you wish, but let's base it in reality (both sides).

 

[NextLever]

It's never been anything else

In this very thread we had aoe4 fans trying to mock viewership of BOA that barely just finished. Never been anything else, alright.

Also, people like me? You're not special because you play other games, aoe4 fans having no loyalty to the game is not a positive thing. Aoe2 would be nowhere now if it was just a game that people "enjoyed for the moment". That's the whole point, the game is more than that, that's why it has survived so long. That's why more people think it is better than aoe4. Not because they are close minded fools who aren't looking forward to other releases.

 

[JUDAS]

AoE4 was released with one goal: to be the flagship for all the AoE franchise, and it failed so hard, that I am waiting for the thread : Current Situation of AoE4 and AoE2 HD. Anybody can enjoy different games, that is just natural, but when an organization is pumping money into a game for the sake of doing it, that doesnt mean the scene is healthy, on the contrary, AoE4 is living an artificial scene in terms of money, it is like if now some guy decides to give AoE2 U$20 millions for four years of tournaments, that doesnt make AoE2 the best game out there, it makes a game where the prizes are not correlated with the popularity of the game, of course, players are going to be thrilled about milking that money, but that doesnt mean that AoE2 is the new League of Legends, anyway enjoy what you like, AoE4 is an average game and it is not bad, can be fun, but the reality is that MS didnt launch AoE4 to get the numbers that is getting in the present.

 

[Giuseppe551]

a $1 million tournament in the works

Info on that?

 

[oozkan]

At least they don't write "haters" or "your game will die without pros" anymore. Quite an improvement.
Let's remember 5 stage of grief again, finally we reached last stage, acceptance.

 

[LowEloNobody]

It's never been anything else

With $1.5 million dollars in tournaments all but confirmed over the next 12 months.. I'm quite content with the stability aoe4 has.. it doesn't need to be more popular than Aoe2, or even on the same level as aoe1 which has more viewers in the last 12 months than both combined.

Personally.. I don't care if the game servers completely shut down one day.. I'm just happy I have something to enjoy for the moment.. and people like you seem to enjoy the subtle digs at me who is just a player who likes to play a different game, when your energy would much better be spent doing things that actually make a difference. It doesn't make your community look good, nor does it make me want to join your community one day if my game does shut down. (And it's not one sided, but "I've seen them do it too!!" Is a childish excuse)

Who knows, if tournaments die down in a few years it may even be unpopular enough to not get any support at all.. but aoe4 players don't have the same "loyalty" to their game as aoe2 players.. alot of us are looking forward to the release of stormgate in fact! and with the immediate future set in stone.. we have nothing we feel like we have "to hold onto or we might lose"

Where has the $1 million dollar AoE4 tourney been talked about? I follow the scene fairly closely and just haven't seen it mentioned

 

[SuperskinnyBLS]

Aoe 4 has great potential

 

[contempt]

Aoe 4 has great potential

I think it's alright to use the past-tense now. It had potential. I wouldn't be surprised if in a year from now AOE III had more players than AOE IV at this rate.

 

[akku]

Imagine the numbers without demuslim and beastqt, who only stick around because they dominate the scene and its easy money for them. This mobile game is even worse than aoe 3, but 3 didn't have such an absurd prizepool which forces some good players to stick around since its free money for them.

To be fair here, isn't the situation a bit similar even in aoe2, though not as prominent?

In aoe2 also currently, there are like 3-4 people in twitch who get 1K+ viewership consistently. And without them, things would be looking a lot more weak.
Granted, there are few more who get viewership in the hundreds, but still

 

[ltm]

To be fair here, isn't the situation a bit similar even in aoe2, though not as prominent?

In aoe2 also currently, there are like 3-4 people in twitch who get 1K+ viewership consistently. And without them, things would be looking a lot more weak.
Granted, there are few more who get viewership in the hundreds, but still

Well for AOE2 the two biggest streamers already left twitch, so it still doing numbers is pretty good for a niche game.

 

[akku]

As for the playerbase that was being discussed.

Not sure of current situation, but when I was in undergrad about 4 years ago, the most of the wing in my hostel were playing aoe2 (LAN). And I personally knew at least 30 people in my year who played aoe2.

And...........ALL of us were playing on hacked version of aoe2: the forgotten empire.

Point being, there are (or were) a ton of people who play the LAN game amongst each other on the hacked version of the old aoe2.
Not sure if it's relevant for the count, just putting it out there.

*************

Regarding "core" base of aoe2.

Not sure of what people consider core.
I haven't played a ranked game for about 4 months, since WFH ended. I still constantly follow the pro scene, and play on the weekend with my friends on co-op campaigns or random map against bots, or just play campaigns (both official and fan-made) alone. I'd consider myself amongst the core base.

IMO people who play the game, whether ranked multiplayer or something else (like single player or campaign), at least once a week or two, are "core base". i.e, those who keep up with the game relatively regularly.
While "casuals" are those who get the game, play some campaigns or some games for a while, and more on to the next game.
Under these standards, I'd guess aoe2 DE has ~ 200K in a month as "core base". And more in other versions (which tend to get heavily undercounted)

 

[lecracheursagacite]

Personally I'm surprised the admin of the forums hasn't stepped in to stop the loud minority. In my opinion, the biggest threat to either game is not each other, but the lack of kindness within the communities of either game.

How many times do you need to be told that Microsoft did not position them this way?

 

[SuperskinnyBLS]

How many times do you need to be told that Microsoft did not position them this way?

Welcome back

 

[MembTV]

@MongolTCRush i think you overstimate the power of aoezone, this forum is the hardcore of aoe2, and pretty much 90% of my viewers if no more, have never checked aoezone or check it very casually.

Also i think you understimate people/viewer experience and own character to take own decisions, no matter what we say, we can give alot of opinions, but at the end of the day if a game is amazing or not, is not you, me or all the people that hate/love either game, is the game itself.

So what i mean is if something is going to be great to watch and play it will success, if is not it won´t, of course there is some timing that matter alot when you create a product and public it, but there is always ways to come back.

Do you think aoe2 has been alive forever? aoe2 got server down, got 0 publicity for so long and a long ETC ETC, but people didn´t care, why? because the game is just amazing in almost every aspect of the game, it still alot to be improved for sure but even with those things that are missing why it keep being the most played and watched??? it is because of what we discuss in a forum or in some streams? The answer is clear "is because of the game itself".

So my opinion is if you enjoy aoe4 that great, keep doing it, who enjoy aoe4 it will keep enjoying but we have to give some big respect to the aoe2 community and hardcore lovers of aoe2, because the real truth is that all the others versions of Age of Empires came because of AoE2 success, otherwise all DE and AoE4 would never be a reality, and this is the main reason why so many people complained in these months and were angry because of the support given to aoe4, but is normal that microsoft give that support, is their new product/kid and you have to support it to make it success.

To finish, will repeat again, no matter what we said, Games talk by themself, lets try hate less and enjoy more.

Stay Tunis.

 

[lecracheursagacite]

Welcome back

I did not think my presence was so deeply missed 11

 

[LowEloNobody]

i think you overstimate the power of aoezone

AoEZone only matters to the 10 trolls, 5 tourney hosts, 3 admins, and 2 idiots that use it
I'm in the latter

 

[Dusk2Dawn]

need 100k asap to boost the numbers

 

[oozkan]

need 100k asap to boost the numbers

Didn't they put 300K already?
But I agree with your general statement since average viewers for the month is under 1K for the first time.

 

[amazing_knight]

From December'21:

The real reason I am not concerned about players/streamers leaving AoE2 for AoE4:

Because AoE4 - as a game - sucks!

Don't get me wrong, it's an okay game when you compare it to, say AoE3. But compared to AoE2, it doesn't have the element that will make it stand the test of time. And I don't even need to look at the decline in numbers to come up with this hypothesis.

So chill out guys. No need to declare AoE2's doom. AoE2 may have a bit of a dry phase for a few months (which is fine), and players/streamers will try to make a name for themselves in AoE4 and extract as much as possible from it (which makes sense), but eventually, everyone will come back to AoE2 because it's simply the better game.

One didn't even need to look at numbers to know that AoE4's decline is imminent. Looking at the gameplay was enough.

AoE4 will live for a few more months and that will be the end of it. What I am not sure is whether that's necessarily good for AoE2 or not. But one thing is clear - AoE4 is not at all any threat to AoE in the medium or long term.

As I said last year when aoe4 was recently released - there was never a reason to worry.
Aoe4 was never a threat to aoe2 in long term. Looking at the gameplay was enough to know that.

Things which stand the test of time cannot be threatened so easily.
And as Memb always says - we love this game for a reason!

 

[Lokalo]

As I said last year when aoe4 was recently released - there was never a reason to worry.
Aoe4 was never a threat to aoe2 in long term. Looking at the gameplay was enough to know that.

Things which stand the test of time cannot be threatened so easily.
And as Memb always says - we love this game for a reason!

KnightStradamus. We lobe this game indeed.

 

[emarz4697]

AoEZone only matters to the 10 trolls, 5 tourney hosts, 3 admins, and 2 idiots that use it
I'm in the latter

Dont forget us lurkers