Current Situation on Aoe4 and Aoe2

[TopperHarley]

just saw that Aoe4 currently has 1.6 k viewers on twitch on a Friday evening. While even one of their biggest streamers (beastyq) is streaming..

Imagine the top streamers of Aoe4 moving to Facebook (which happened with Aoe2). Would we have ~200 viewers on a Friday evening for Aoe4?

Its just a fact that this game is on life support by huge tournament money (and it make sense to do so from a Microsoft perspective i guess) but let's not forget that i would be so ded otherwise..

 

[kshotts1]

just saw that Aoe4 currently has 1.6 k viewers on twitch on a Friday evening. While even one of their biggest streamers (beastyq) is streaming..

Imagine the top streamers of Aoe4 moving to Facebook (which happened with Aoe2). Would we have ~200 viewers on a Friday evening for Aoe4?

Its just a fact that this game is on life support by huge tournament money (and it make sense to do so from a Microsoft perspective i guess) but let's not forget that i would be so ded otherwise..

Yep, gotta think about it from Microsoft’s perspective. They want casual aoe fans to believe aoe4 is still a highly hyped game with a lot of potential. They do so by giving it the larger prize pool and the final series. This will convince people who watch the tourney for aoe1 and 2 that they need to buy aoe4 because it’s the “latest and greatest”.

 

[dodageka]

Informal poll of the wise heads of AoEZone.

In each of the following situations how do you think AoE2 would be affected? (Worse off, the same, better off)
Feel free to explain why.

1) AoE4 was never announced, and therefore never created and released.

2) AoE4 was released in the same state but a few years earlier (say 2018/19).

3) AoE4 is released in the same state but a few years later (2023/24).

4) AoE4 is released in a better state but a few years later (2023/24).

1) significantly worse off. No DE and significantly weaker pro scene

2) somewhat worse off because that also could mean no DE. Also, AoE2 would have had to share some of the Corona boom with another AoE title

3) probably somewhat similar, as money would be invested into DE as a marketing tool. Price pools would probably be lower and S-Tier tournaments less frequent

4) same as 3) as people couldn’t really know now how the state of AoE4 would be two years down the roas

 

[akku]

Informal poll of the wise heads of AoEZone.

In each of the following situations how do you think AoE2 would be affected? (Worse off, the same, better off)
Feel free to explain why.

1) AoE4 was never announced, and therefore never created and released.

2) AoE4 was released in the same state but a few years earlier (say 2018/19).

3) AoE4 is released in the same state but a few years later (2023/24).

4) AoE4 is released in a better state but a few years later (2023/24).

1. Aoe2 DE would still have come out IMO, irrespective of aoe4. Aoe2 was getting it's new editions all the time due to it's popularity, aoe2 DE was easy money for Microsoft.
Still, it has to be acknowledged that aoe2 was getting more money than it otherwise would because of aoe4. Since they wanted to build up the scene for their intended "switch". So, I'd guess maybe 50% less price pool than it received between 2019-21.
So, I say it would be somewhat worse off than it is currently.


2. Significantly worse off.
Aoe2 would not get the funding it received then, like how it currently has been so far, because MS wants to focus on aoe4. Which means, it wouldn't have had the 2-3 years of buildup leading to a relatively significant live viewers.

3. Aoe2 might even have got more sponsors than RB after seeing the viewership in HC and RB Wololo. I mean, advertising to 50-75K live viewers is no joke.
Which could mean that MS pulling the funding soon after release of aoe4 would have had lesser impact than it currently did. Still, this is speculation and there would be no guarantee that the sponsors (esp corporate ones) would stick around in times of uncertainty when aoe4 came out. But regardless, aoe2 would've established itself a bigger fanbase and more loyal sponsors than it currently has.
Worse case scenario: somewhat better off than currently.
Base case scenario: significantly better off than currently.

4. You mean if aoe4 was actually a good game, worthy of being a successor to aoe2?
Aoe2 would definitely grow stronger over the 2 years, due to reason in point 3. But, a significant portion of aoe2 base would make the switch once aoe4 is released. Which means aoe2 would definitely be in a worse spot than it is now.

 

[lecracheursagacite]

Still, it has to be acknowledged that aoe2 was getting more money than it otherwise would because of aoe4. Since they wanted to build up the scene for their intended "switch". So, I'd guess maybe 50% less price pool than it received between 2019-21.

@robo What is your opinion on the business logic of this?

 

[Brlr716]

As I play and watch both game extensively I think its safe to say why AOE4 is less popular becoz lack of micro there.

What I like aoe4 is you can choose different landmarks so you have different options and strategy for the game, that adds a lot of diversification even for mirror matches - but lacking micro making it a bit boring to play and watch sometimes, especially whatever siege and stone wall involves. Watching aoe2 is fun because even mangol wars its fun to watch until the late trash war, but aoe4 is a different story, you just sit in front of keep and watch the springalds shoot each other Hate seeing mangonel, springalds etc in the game, looks stupid and extremely boring.

I think they can't solve the balancing problem before redbull wololo 6.

 

[SouFire]

Several months have passed, aoe4 is consistently holding around 10% of the players of their peak, yet it is still getting hundreds of thousands usd every month, without that money the game would be at 5% of the player base, there is no need to keep comparing such failure to aoe2.

Aoe2 has been recovering slowly on twitch, from 200 viewers average at my time now it gets 800 which is x4 more than before, some experts are playing a little bit more, the ladder is more active than 2 or 3 months ago, but it is really far away on viewer numbers ignoring the tournaments which is basically what matters, before aoe4 it had 2k average viewers on my time zone.

At least things are getting better

 

[JUDAS]

Several months have passed, aoe4 is consistently holding around 10% of the players of their peak, yet it is still getting hundreds of thousands usd every month, without that money the game would be at 5% of the player base, there is no need to keep comparing such failure to aoe2.

Aoe2 has been recovering slowly on twitch, from 200 viewers average at my time now it gets 800 which is x4 more than before, some experts are playing a little bit more, the ladder is more active than 2 or 3 months ago, but it is really far away on viewer numbers ignoring the tournaments which is basically what matters, before aoe4 it had 2k average viewers on my time zone.

At least things are getting better

The highest impact in viewers is coming form Viper and T90 moving to FB, that is really a lot more impactful than AoE4 which is now in its lowest numbers ever, at least in Steam.

 

[Rorarimbo]

It may be just one hour (for now) but I did not expect it would happen any tme soon (or ever).

 

[Tendo]

It may be just one hour (for now) but I did not expect it would happen any tme soon (or ever).

Not that surprising, AoE3 got a new DLC so they're numbers are a bit higher then usual.

 

[LeoMontero]

The highest impact in viewers is coming form Viper and T90 moving to FB, that is really a lot more impactful than AoE4 which is now in its lowest numbers ever, at least in Steam.

exactly this, if the 2 go back to twitch, the viewers will rise fast.

its not worthy to talk about age4 now. all the things that we, "the haters" have been sayng, are a reality now.

the only thing that im disapointed, is the amount of money in prices. but i think that is a busines related thing and cant do nothing about that. only wait and expect that MS make the right conclusions. also expect that RB continues with his tournaments when MS stop giving money for aoe4.

 

[NesteaZen]

Several months have passed, aoe4 is consistently holding around 10% of the players of their peak, yet it is still getting hundreds of thousands usd every month, without that money the game would be at 5% of the player base, there is no need to keep comparing such failure to aoe2.
[...]

omg are we still on this.

There was a (unnecessary) fight and it's done.

https://twitter.com/HaymakerHub/status/1526700405857603584

What changes for you if they pump money into aoe4? Are you gonna stop playing/watching aoe2? Are you gonna enjoy aoe2 more if the prize pool is gonna be higher?
Are you here to circlejerk for numbers?
Be happy the community is small like that. The likelihood of you being remembered by a streamer/event organizer is higher than if you were a paying trash sheep in a high volume esport.

Microsoft is gonna keep pumping money into aoe4, or not. It's their property; aoe2 as well as aoe4. Let them burn cash. They have the operational numbers, not us.

Still, it has to be acknowledged that aoe2 was getting more money than it otherwise would because of aoe4. Since they wanted to build up the scene for their intended "switch". So, I'd guess maybe 50% less price pool than it received between 2019-21.

@robo What is your opinion on the business logic of this?

Could've been a strategy, but who cares. You probably are gonna hear the truth about this in only 10-15 years.

The only thing I was super annoyed with is the then new crowd dunking on aoe2 maxis for speaking critically about aoe4.
Where are these people now.
I've actually made screen shots of these people from the various aoe4 twitch chat channels. Guess i should do some cross checking.

also expect that RB continues with his tournaments when MS stop giving money for aoe4.

It all comes down to if these tournaments can be written off. (Money that would go towards taxes, go into these tournaments instead)

the only thing that im disapointed, is the amount of money in prices.

I don't understand this way of thinking. What does this change for you.
You've gotten a tournament in a castle setting. How amazing was that? Not only that, you're getting a SECOND one in the castle. With crew that was all dressed up! and fake villagers .. ???
Show me another game that had such a setting. ?
I don't remember any esport events in a coliseum for example.

Even if pros leave for higher prized games, you probably are gonna get new people. Maybe you're going see new meta etc.

 

[princecoconut]

"Are you gonna enjoy aoe2 more if the prize pool is gonna be higher?"

Well...yes obviously.
More tension, more preparation, more quality.

People like Viper playing AOE4 instead of the game they clearly want to play because the tournament money is higher on the other side, makes it pretty clear yes.

 

[SouFire]

omg are we still on this.

There was a (unnecessary) fight and it's done.

https://twitter.com/HaymakerHub/status/1526700405857603584

What changes for you if they pump money into aoe4? Are you gonna stop playing/watching aoe2? Are you gonna enjoy aoe2 more if the prize pool is gonna be higher?
Are you here to circlejerk for numbers?
Be happy the community is small like that. The likelihood of you being remembered by a streamer/event organizer is higher than if you were a paying trash sheep in a high volume esport.

Microsoft is gonna keep pumping money into aoe4, or not. It's their property; aoe2 as well as aoe4. Let them burn cash. They have the operational numbers, not us.

Could've been a strategy, but who cares. You probably are gonna hear the truth about this in only 10-15 years.

The only thing I was super annoyed with is the then new crowd dunking on aoe2 maxis for speaking critically about aoe4.
Where are these people now.
I've actually made screen shots of these people from the various aoe4 twitch chat channels. Guess i should do some cross checking.

It all comes down to if these tournaments can be written off. (Money that would go towards taxes, go into these tournaments instead)

I don't understand this way of thinking. What does this change for you.
You've gotten a tournament in a castle setting. How amazing was that? Not only that, you're getting a SECOND one in the castle. With crew that was all dressed up! and fake villagers .. ???
Show me another game that had such a setting. ?
I don't remember any esport events in a coliseum for example.

Even if pros leave for higher prized games, you probably are gonna get new people. Maybe you're going see new meta etc.

What changes to me? nothing, what changes to aoe2 community well, no viper... and many more experts milking aoe4 and stopping completely aoe2, less aoe2 content for everyone, that is actually the big impact on aoe2, both games can't co-exist cause one is hurting aoe2, if the aoe2 pros wouldn't have focused +6 months of their lives in aoe4 this topic wouldn't even exist, the thing is that those big sums of cash are going to keep flowing meaning that aoe4 will keep hurting aoe2 community and the ladder.

 

[oozkan]

I think this discussion is dead, even skinny changed to AOE4 side, I might do the same to heat things up, I believe we both could defend current AOE4 better than fanbois or people who were expecting to fill pockets.

 

[Rorarimbo]

Not that surprising, AoE3 got a new DLC so they're numbers are a bit higher then usual.

Yes, I know it may not happen again soon. It is just for an hour, it is not around the daily peak, there is the DLC, and there are more Aoe4 players on MS store (there is also the other version of AoE3 btw). BUT a situation like that makes one realize we are not just way past comparing Aoe4 to AoE2 (in terms of player numbers), we are now actually comparing Aoe4 to Aoe3 which was always described as a failure esp when it comes to the number of players.

 

[kshotts1]

Hera and Daut have rescheduled their BO21 from this weekend to during the week. Maybe a conflict came up for one of them. But wondering if they were asked to reschedule because it would have been an embarrassment for aoe4 when it received more viewership than the grand final of Golden League.

 

[_Donatello_]

Maybe they Just resceduled for something Else, and tonight is the biggest soccer match of the year intill the world cup final in desember, around a billion People gonna watch so I would be more afraid they took viewers tonight then anything in gaming

 

[SuperskinnyBLS]

tonight is the biggest soccer match

Broooo

 

[Mouttie]

Maybe they Just resceduled for something Else, and tonight is the biggest soccer match of the year intill the world cup final in desember, around a billion People gonna watch so I would be more afraid they took viewers tonight then anything in gaming

what is soccer

 

[Lokalo]

Hera and Daut have rescheduled their BO21 from this weekend to during the week. Maybe a conflict came up for one of them. But wondering if they were asked to reschedule because it would have been an embarrassment for aoe4 when it received more viewership than the grand final of Golden League.

View attachment 200840

Hera played against MBL two games, second game he lost a vill by a boar and didnt kill a vill which he probably should have of mbl and said he tried to force to play to get some content, but just not in mood and quited game. Also mentioned something like he hopes he is in a mood for tomorrow(meaning this Bo21) so I guess he wasnt. Nothing to do with aoe4

 

[Eastie86]

Maybe they Just resceduled for something Else, and tonight is the biggest soccer match of the year intill the world cup final in desember, around a billion People gonna watch so I would be more afraid they took viewers tonight then anything in gaming

Although prestigious, I doubt the a-league grand final will take too many viewers away

 

[sheeesh]

what is soccer

football but actually played with feet 11

 

[Halleju]

football but actually played with feet 11

football is always being played with feet. Or are you refering to the us sport, where you carry a ball formed like an egg and call it also football?

 

[oozkan]

football is always being played with feet. Or are you refering to the us sport, where you carry a ball formed like an egg and call it also football?

Egg like ball, isn't that rugby?

had to join to the discussion somehow