Current Situation on Aoe4 and Aoe2

[HongeyKong]

How are the viewer and player numbers looking for april for both aoe2 and aoe4?

aoe2 rm 1v1: 41k
aoe4 rm 1v1: 27k
aoe4 qm 1v1: 27k


aoe2 twitch: 2.3k
aoe4 twitch: 2.2k

 

[GorLeon]

View attachment 200198
Are you seeing something different to me?? EGCTV has almost double the viewers?

Is this supposed to be good for AOE4? To be honest, what I see is that a random stream from Hera actually had more than half the viewers of a stream from a channel who's putting hundreds of thousands of dollars into it. Hera couldn't care less about his AOE2 viewers for months, yet look at how easy it was for him to come back; EGCTV spams r/aoe4 almost everyday with "announcements" and sometimes they even answer here looking for some exposure, yet they barely had double the viewers as Hera. I understand that some people will defend AOE4 for centuries, but please, get real.

 

[kw1k000000]

How are the viewer and player numbers looking for april for both aoe2 and aoe4?

aoe4 shows a mild decline in player numbers over last month. aoe4 did a get a big patch from devs which supposed to make the game much better (dont ask me for details).

aoe2 shows a sligh upward trend in player numbers. aoe2 got a new dlc

 

[MongolTCRush]

This reek

Is this supposed to be good for AOE4? To be honest, what I see is that a random stream from Hera actually had more than half the viewers of a stream from a channel who's putting hundreds of thousands of dollars into it. Hera couldn't care less about his AOE2 viewers for months, yet look at how easy it was for him to come back; EGCTV spams r/aoe4 almost everyday with "announcements" and sometimes they even answer here looking for some exposure, yet they barely had double the viewers as Hera. I understand that some people will defend AOE4 for centuries, but please, get real.

You sound very butt hurt.

I'm not going to go into defending aoe4 "for centuries" because at least in the short term - my game has a secure future with tournament funding for at least the next 12 months lol

 

[JUDAS]

This reek

You sound very butt hurt.

I'm not going to go into defending aoe4 "for centuries" because at least in the short term - my game has a secure future with tournament funding for at least the next 12 months lol

Nice, gl with that, just get better at the game, so you milk that fat EGCTV cow in the next 12 months.

 

[stanno]

AOE4 seems to have hit pretty much rock bottom around late February and early March. The numbers will have ups and downs from now on, but based on the state of the game right now, I don't see it dropping back down to those numbers. I can see the game finishing this year with a net growth compared to April, but I don't know how big a growth.

AOE2 is currently having a good month, just as it has had bad months. It always fluctuates around the same avg of monthly players on Steam. Regardless, it's good to see the game in a "good month" once again. If Microsoft sees this, they might consider funding a big 1v1 tournament at some point before KOTD. (30k prizepool or more)

 

[Tendo]

If Microsoft sees this, they might consider funding a big 1v1 tournament at some point before KOTD. (30k prizepool or more)

Don't think that depends rly on MS, but more on Tournament Hosts.
Those big Tournaments don't appear out of nowhere, you need someone to organize and stream them.

Looking back at the last years for 1vs1 those were Nili, T90, Memb, Redbull and Viper.
(Except for Memb ofc.) only T90 sounds likely to do such a big thing this year, but he already did WWC with Dave so maybe smth. like WC2022 sounds more reasonable (if he rly doesn't want to do HC5 this year).

 

[stanno]

Don't think that depends rly on MS, but more on Tournament Hosts.
Those big Tournaments don't appear out of nowhere, you need someone to organize and stream them.

Looking back at the last years for 1vs1 those were Nili, T90, Memb, Redbull and Viper.
(Except for Memb ofc.) only T90 sounds likely to do such a big thing this year, but he already did WWC with Dave so maybe smth. like WC2022 sounds more reasonable (if he rly doesn't want to do HC5 this year).

If so, the tournament hosts could've joined forces with Jordan to make Resurgence have more prize money.
Though, admittedly I don't know what goes on behind the scenes.

 

[LeoMontero]

View attachment 200198
Are you seeing something different to me?? EGCTV has almost double the viewers?

when i wathc, it was the opposite numbers, thats why i didnt show them

 

[LeoMontero]

MS is investing money to gain customers. They don't throw it to customers they already have. Not sure if DLCs for AOE2 are worth the investment. At some point, they will run out of new civs. The game was continuously growing for several years, but it is questionable if this growth was significant enough to justify bigger investments.

In my opinion, MS was delusional enough to be convinced that AOE4 will be a huge success and it would be worth to invest into both the whole franchise and the new game itself. That was obviously a miscalculation, so things will change in the future. In addition, they now own several additional RTS brands after the acquisition of Blizzard. The WC3 scene is rather small at the moment and Reforged was an even bigger failure than AOE4, but the Warcraft-universe has still a big fanbase and Starcraft seems to be relatively stable as well (don't know tbh, I have never been into it). So they might spread their tournament money even more in the future.

Initially I thought they would cut tournament investments in AOE2 completely in favor of AOE4 (after a short transition period until all player switched to the new game with hUge pOtENtial). Given the poor performance of AOE4, this is probably not realistic any more. My prediction is a more even albeit generally lower sponsoring.

i dont think that MS can not win more customers by marketing the aoe2.
how is that blizzard keep suporting SC2 ten years later?
i think aoe2 can grow a lot with more exposure. if MS support aoe2 like blizzard support SC2, who knows?

 

[Tendo]

If so, the tournament hosts could've joined forces with Jordan to make Resurgence have more prize money.
Though, admittedly I don't know what goes on behind the scenes.

I mean Tournament organizers coming together and creating a huge Tournament sounds amazing, but them doing that with Resurgence just so that the Tournament get's more prize money sounds... rly weird imo.

 

[LeoMontero]

Is this supposed to be good for AOE4? To be honest, what I see is that a random stream from Hera actually had more than half the viewers of a stream from a channel who's putting hundreds of thousands of dollars into it. Hera couldn't care less about his AOE2 viewers for months, yet look at how easy it was for him to come back; EGCTV spams r/aoe4 almost everyday with "announcements" and sometimes they even answer here looking for some exposure, yet they barely had double the viewers as Hera. I understand that some people will defend AOE4 for centuries, but please, get real.

and when i looked, the numbers were the oposite, hera with 3k and egctv had 2k, and was playing some known player.
hera was chiling.

 

[stanno]

I mean Tournament organizers coming together and creating a huge Tournament sounds amazing, but them doing that with Resurgence just so that the Tournament get's more prize money sounds... rly weird imo.

Idk. It's just my personal taste. I don't really have any motivation to watch Resurgence because of how low the prize money is compared to other events we've had.

 

[LeoMontero]

AOE4 seems to have hit pretty much rock bottom around late February and early March. The numbers will have ups and downs from now on, but based on the state of the game right now, I don't see it dropping back down to those numbers. I can see the game finishing this year with a net growth compared to April, but I don't know how big a growth.

AOE2 is currently having a good month, just as it has had bad months. It always fluctuates around the same avg of monthly players on Steam. Regardless, it's good to see the game in a "good month" once again. If Microsoft sees this, they might consider funding a big 1v1 tournament at some point before KOTD. (30k prizepool or more)

why cant support a big Team Tournament???

 

[Tendo]

I don't really have any motivation to watch Resurgence because of how low the prize money is compared to other events we've had.

Everyone they're own, we all have different taste.
For me the settings are far more important, which is why I don't watch Hidden Cups (because I don't enjoy the setting) but watch a Tournament like Rage Forest, even though it has a way smaller Prizepool.

 

[JUDAS]

Don't think that depends rly on MS, but more on Tournament Hosts.
Those big Tournaments don't appear out of nowhere, you need someone to organize and stream them.

Looking back at the last years for 1vs1 those were Nili, T90, Memb, Redbull and Viper.
(Except for Memb ofc.) only T90 sounds likely to do such a big thing this year, but he already did WWC with Dave so maybe smth. like WC2022 sounds more reasonable (if he rly doesn't want to do HC5 this year).

That is the real problem, people seems to be eager for AoE2 being an esport, and that is impossible with the actual model that MS has been doing (they are not interested in that goal), you can see why LoL and even SC2 are esports, the funding doesnt depend on whoever private host is willing to collect, so the company can match the money, besides the funds on those scenes are really big, real full push from Riot and Blizzard to keep the scenes going. AOE2 is the best RTS game for team games and the community has not taken advantage of that, (well with the tg ladder broken, and the lack of support from MS you cant expect more), so we as a community are hoping for something that is not going to happen, not in MS watch at least.

 

[stanno]

why cant support a big Team Tournament???

Because AOE2 is not well designed for competitive team games, at least imo.
AOE2 team games are GREAT for casual players though, and the biggest gamemode for AOE2.

 

[GorLeon]

This reek

You sound very butt hurt.

I'm not going to go into defending aoe4 "for centuries" because at least in the short term - my game has a secure future with tournament funding for at least the next 12 months lol

Butt hurt? I personally wouldn't care at all if AOE4 had like 100 times more players than AOE2. What annoys me, since I'm a data scientist, is that people just take some random stats out of context to defend their favorite horse. AOE4 is in a really bad position on all stats, especially if you take into consideration its "secure future with tournament funding for at least the next 12 months", which is yet to confirm. Other than that, you're obviously free to play whatever you want.

 

[LeoMontero]

Because AOE2 is not well designed for competitive team games, at least imo.
AOE2 team games are GREAT for casual players though, and the biggest gamemode for AOE2.

?????????????????
how not well designed?
best games are TG, in tournaments or in ladder or for fun.

 

[stanno]

?????????????????
how not well designed?
best games are TG, in tournaments or in ladder or for fun.

They're long, sluggish games that take forever, especially in a BO5 or BO7 , which is a typical format for grand finals of a big event. Not to mention that there are not enough competitive teams. You always know that either Aftermath or GamerLegion will win. WWP can maybe pull an upset, or Suomi to some extent, but for the most part GL and aM are miles ahead of the rest.
Maybe if we had at least 5 or 6 seriously competitive teams, and smaller TG maps, I could see TG tournaments being bigger. But in order to have that amount of seriously competitive teams, we would need at least twice as many pro players.


If you take a TG tournament and a 1v1 tournament, with similar prize money, the 1v1 tournament will always get more viewers. Just check statistics from last year and the year before.

 

[Elvaenor]

They're long, sluggish games that take forever, especially in a BO5 or BO7 , which is a typical format for grand finals of a big event. Not to mention that there are not enough competitive teams. You always know that either Aftermath or GamerLegion will win. WWP can maybe pull an upset, or Suomi to some extent, but for the most part GL and aM are miles ahead of the rest.
Maybe if we had at least 5 or 6 seriously competitive teams, and smaller TG maps, I could see TG tournaments being bigger. But in order to have that amount of seriously competitive teams, we would need at least twice as many pro players.


If you take a TG tournament and a 1v1 tournament, with similar prize money, the 1v1 tournament will always get more viewers. Just check statistics from last year and the year before.

Correlating bad TG design with too few competitive teams is an absolutely empty argument.
I agree the games can drag on, but don't forget that's exactly what a huge amount of people love to watch. One of the best games I've ever watched was the ECL aM' vs. Suomi on Oasis which went on forever.
Statistics regarding 1v1 tournaments and TG tournaments aren't really valid as well as there have been a bunch of huge 1v1 tournament, but BOA is the only great TG tournament that's happening so far for DE, so we'll have to wait and see how this tournament does in terms of viewer count to make a fair comparison I think.

 

[Lord Bolton]

S tier "Rage forest" tournament doing quite well in viewer numbers? Press x to doubt

 

[LeoMontero]

They're long, sluggish games that take forever, especially in a BO5 or BO7 , which is a typical format for grand finals of a big event. Not to mention that there are not enough competitive teams. You always know that either Aftermath or GamerLegion will win. WWP can maybe pull an upset, or Suomi to some extent, but for the most part GL and aM are miles ahead of the rest.
Maybe if we had at least 5 or 6 seriously competitive teams, and smaller TG maps, I could see TG tournaments being bigger. But in order to have that amount of seriously competitive teams, we would need at least twice as many pro players.


If you take a TG tournament and a 1v1 tournament, with similar prize money, the 1v1 tournament will always get more viewers. Just check statistics from last year and the year before.

first, if you dont promote TG tournaments, the teams will never appear. so, you are in a loop. no teams, so no tournaments, so no teams, so no tournaments. dont want that. and you said that we need more pro players, but also there are no money from MS or another big company because age4 hype.
it doesnt matter if they are long, because they are entertainment. best games are TG, and team tournaments have the best games for sure.
i know that statistic is in favour of 1-1, but everything can change. best esports are the one that are played in teams.

 

[Elvaenor]

S tier "Rage forest" tournament doing quite well in viewer numbers? Press x to doubt

It's not an s tier tournament, and I think it's totalling 6-7k viewers atm, which isn't bad. However, rage forest is not a "great" TG tournament in the sense that it's like the 'grand slams', such as HC, RBW, NAC are for 1v1. Boa is different in this regard I think since it's an actual s tier tournament, and has much more history than for instance rage forest.

 

[LeoMontero]

Correlating bad TG design with too few competitive teams is an absolutely empty argument.
I agree the games can drag on, but don't forget that's exactly what a huge amount of people love to watch. One of the best games I've ever watched was the ECL aM' vs. Suomi on Oasis which went on forever.
Statistics regarding 1v1 tournaments and TG tournaments aren't really valid as well as there have been a bunch of huge 1v1 tournament, but BOA is the only great TG tournament that's happening so far for DE, so we'll have to wait and see how this tournament does in terms of viewer count to make a fair comparison I think.

amen