Current Situation on Aoe4 and Aoe2

[lecracheursagacite]

Aoe4 has more ongoing matches running, last time i checked it was x2.5 the numbers than aoe2, i like to use the ongoing matches numbers cause they are trustworthy, it doesn't count guys that left the game open or are just doing SP stuff, when you use those numbers from players that actually have an impact in the multiplayer then those 13k players you see on steam+the guys on the microsoft store are just in real numbers something like 4k players active with a peak of 6k on weekends, if aoe2-net adds a way to count users playing then we could talk about real numbers of active players and stop using those inflated numbers that don't help at all in the MP scene.

But yeah aoe4 hasn't been really successful, if you remove the big names streaming with their audience, you will find that aoe4 streams in the majority have 1 viewer average, meaning that the game hasn't created interested consumers browsing for its content, sometimes the big numbers are held by one single sc2 streamer.

As for the playerbase, their numbers aren't really big but well but lets be fair lets wait until 1 month and then verify the data 2 months later.

But compared to their big brothers it seems aoe4is being overshadowed by forza horizon 5 and the upcoming halo infinite which already has much bigger numbers, like i said several months ago aoe4 needed a free multiplayer to succeed.

And if not free multiplayer to be a great game that was moderately close to finished upon release.

 

But yeah aoe4 hasn't been really successful

It just depends on how you define "success". AoE4 is a new game in the Age of Empires franchise. I don't think you should go into it with the expectation that it can be as "successful" as AoE2, with the decades of precedent that AoE2 has. It originates from a different time.

I think for what AoE4 is, in the time and with the lack of references for RTS games we're in these days, AoE4 can certainly be said to have some success. Not just necessarily the success in user and sales numbers, game reviews or viewer numbers on streams - but simply that the name is back in people's heads and people are talking about it again. Of course, this also has a positive effect on the sales, user and viewer numbers of the games of the entire franchise - and World's Edge knows that very well. Therefore, there is not even the discussion point that AoE2or even AoE3 should be left alone or anything like that. They've identified the franchise as a jack-of-all-trades. AoE2DE, AoE4, AoM2, AoE4: DLC, AoE5?

I don't see the end of the line yet.

 

[MusashiAOE]

 

[Progeusz]

I don't think you should go into it with the expectation that it can be as "successful" as AoE2, with the decades of precedent that AoE2 has. It originates from a different time.

I think you should. Gaming is a lot more popular than it was 20 years ago. Most of the games keep breaking their own records with sequels, even when sequels are even lower quality games than AoE 4. Games are a lot more affordable nowadays (at least in legal manners) and the population of people playing games is several times higher, it's no longer a hobby for nerds/geeks. RTS have been pretty dead as a genre for past 10+ years but Age of Empires name is strong, many people played it as kids or heard about it in the past and now as working adults they can afford it no problem.
AoE 4 had amazing potential by default. It was however squandered by lack of updates since initial announcement, mixed reception of trailers etc. and insufficient marketing (probably because devs realized how unimpressive their product looks and how little they have to show other than token hires speaking modern slogans). Real shame considering game was in the works for years, under the wings of Microsoft, one of the biggest companies.

 

[IRC_tomate]

Selection of either only military or only economy units (alt/ctrl+drag in aoe2)
selection/deselection of an individual unit from a selection. Using prelates, tax officials etc is just so annoying if you cannot select individuals...

Alternatively, if they don't select the latter they have to at least include the following:
Hotkeys for individual buildings

Box selection / CTRL+A -> select various type of units

• TAB -> cycle trough unit types (+COMMAND: for example move archers to the back and pike to the front)
• CTRL + L CLICK -> select that unit type only
• SHIFT + L CLICK -> exclude that unit type from the group

CTRL + L CLICK a unit will select all same unit type on screen

Hotkeys for buildings (grouped) F1 F2 F3 F4

The things you asking for are already there... just not the way you expected them to be. Whenever I come to a StarCraft2 player asking for camera hotkeys in AoE2 DE; mate press H, then press H again, those are all the camera hotkeys you need.

 

[kw1k000000]

Box selection / CTRL+A -> select various type of units

• TAB -> cycle trough unit types (+COMMAND: for example move archers to the back and pike to the front)
• CTRL + L CLICK -> select that unit type only
• SHIFT + L CLICK -> exclude that unit type from the group

CTRL + L CLICK a unit will select all same unit type on screen

Hotkeys for buildings (grouped) F1 F2 F3 F4

The things you asking for are already there... just not the way you expected them to be. Whenever I come to a StarCraft2 player asking for camera hotkeys in AoE2 DE; mate press H, then press H again, those are all the camera hotkeys you need.

Different people have different hotkeys. It's idiotic to force everyone to predefined hotkeys

 

[Chuggles]

I'm surprised at all the people cheering the decline in AoE4 numbers, as if it should be a cause for celebration. Clearly the game didn't actually steal player numbers from AoE2, so a large amount of people playing 4 can only be a good thing, right? Maybe they're new to RTS, and some of them will make their way to AoE2 after a while...

As for a lot of the pros enjoying AoE4, and possibly moving to 4 full time...it's hard to blame them for enjoying a game that is really fun and deep, despite its flaws. The meta for AoE2 does get stale after a while. Maybe a new (but related) experience is more compelling than the same game they've been playing 5 hours a day for the last 10 years?

 

I think you should. Gaming is a lot more popular than it was 20 years ago. Most of the games keep breaking their own records with sequels, even when sequels are even lower quality games than AoE 4. Games are a lot more affordable nowadays (at least in legal manners) and the population of people playing games is several times higher, it's no longer a hobby for nerds/geeks. RTS have been pretty dead as a genre for past 10+ years but Age of Empires name is strong, many people played it as kids or heard about it in the past and now as working adults they can afford it no problem. AoE 4 had amazing potential by default.

You are contradicting yourself here, imho.

Gaming is a lot more popular than 20 years ago.
RTS has been pretty dead lately.
Yes, that's the point I'm making.

Competition for games is much higher today, you can't easily bind your customer with your game for days, weeks, months.
Talking about affordability, games aren't shipped with cereal boxed anymore or there aren't many demos distributed anymore to playtest a game after release for free. Yes, you can test your game via Game Pass for a small amount of money, but you can also decide to play something completely different. It's just a whole different thing today.

And regarding AoE4 has/had amazing potential. For me the same as said before, how do you define "amazing" if not based on your own preferences? I think it's already doing better, than I expected it to do based on the assumption that RTS is a somehow dead/niche genre and the people that played it as kids are now adults and working so they actually don't have time or don't play video games anymore, even if they can afford to buy the game. And regarding the rest. I think you misinterpret the intention of the release of AoE4. I don't think it was the intention to create the best RTS possible or to innovate the genre. It's a test how RTS does in 2021 after the hype around the definitive editions - so they played it really safe. Old setting, a bit modernized graphics here and mechanics there. But overall still taking the approach the most successful game in the franchise - AoE2 - did. Not to look unimpressive, but to actually take people from a middle ground between AoE1, AoE2, AoE3, AoM and AoEO and check in which direction it might make sense to continue development. That's what I think. AoE4 is a safe testing vehicle for upcoming titles of the franchise now that they have the engine for it.

 

[Progeusz]

how do you even manage to find a contradiction there
those aren't contradictory in the slightest and it is already explained why in my previous post...
also RTS genre being dead doesn't mean there's no market for it, quite the contrary - people are hungry for good RTS but nothing came out since starcraft 2 (definitive editions are a different thing, people don't count them as new games)

 

how do you even manage to find a contradiction there
those aren't contradictory in the slightest and it is already explained why in my previous post...
also RTS genre being dead doesn't mean there's no market for it, quite the contrary - people are hungry for good RTS but nothing came out since starcraft 2 (definitive editions are a different thing, people don't count them as new games)

The fallacy and contradiction is imho that you expect to a game of a nearly "dead"/under-represented genre to be as successful or even more successful than a game that came out 20 years ago and was a huge success back then only because other titles do well with much more people involved and people that grew up with the genre are now old enough with a stable income to afford a $60 AAA game. These are all your arguments by the way to proof that AoE4 as it is now isn't as successful as AoE2 was back in the days under different circumstances.

It's just a mess, to be honest. I need to take some time to see where I can start.

 

[otw_Da]

With the tower nerf AoE 2 lost alot of momentum in the early game - it made the game more predictable - individuality of civs and gameplay was very important - so i even miss inca vill rushes
But the people cried for nerfs - they got them - now game is boring because alot feels the same.
sad typical story

AoE 4 reminds me to much of Stronghold 2 and its not the type of game I would like to play. Maybe with friends on lan once or twice but AoE 3 has this spot already.

 

[Snizl]

Box selection / CTRL+A -> select various type of units

• TAB -> cycle trough unit types (+COMMAND: for example move archers to the back and pike to the front)
• CTRL + L CLICK -> select that unit type only
• SHIFT + L CLICK -> exclude that unit type from the group

CTRL + L CLICK a unit will select all same unit type on screen

Hotkeys for buildings (grouped) F1 F2 F3 F4

The things you asking for are already there... just not the way you expected them to be. Whenever I come to a StarCraft2 player asking for camera hotkeys in AoE2 DE; mate press H, then press H again, those are all the camera hotkeys you need.

Sorry if I am missing something, but where in your list do I have a key to select/deselect an INDIVIDUAL unit from a selection, and where can I select military without selecting villagers? You are telling me I can select everything on screen and then have to deselect villagers. That's not a hotkey, that's just cumbersome. And yeah, hotkeys for buildings GROUPED. I still need to manually click on the stables in the selection if I want to only select those. Yes, you can do those things (except for individual unit selection), but it feels like you are getting thrown back years.

 

[Hunyadi_]

AoE4 reminds me of the all in 1 TC play. Once that initial storm is over, no eco to speak of.

AoE2 on the other hand has been 5 TC booming for 20 years.

 

[Progeusz]

how do you define "amazing" if not based on your own preferences?

Age of Empires is objectively a well known and renowned franchise. It has nothing to do with my own preference.

I think you misinterpret the intention of the release of AoE4. I don't think it was the intention to create the best RTS possible or to innovate the genre.

but i never claimed or even suggested that
you are arguing a strawman in your head

It's a test how RTS does in 2021 after the hype around the definitive editions - so they played it really safe.

No, they played it incompetent. If they wanted to play it safe, they would have included golden standard like hotkeys. AoE 4 has many things in its favor but it also makes fundamental mistakes which are inexcusable.
It would also help if UI thematically fit the game, like it does in pretty much any RTS. Instead what we got in AoE 4 is a soulless unreadable disgrace.

AoE4 is a safe testing vehicle for upcoming titles of the franchise now that they have the engine for it.

Now this is a poor joke if I've ever seen one. Relic keeps using the Essence Engine from Company of Heroes that was released fifteen years ago (in 2006) and despite some improvements over the years, it's clearly dated.

 

[LeoMontero]

AoE4 reminds me of the all in 1 TC play. Once that initial storm is over, no eco to speak of.

AoE2 on the other hand has been 5 TC booming for 20 years.

did you see kotd this last weekend??? how can you say that after that. just nonsense

 

[Progeusz]

did you see kotd this last weekend??? how can you say that after that. just nonsense

I'm afraid the metaphor went over your head.

 

[JUDAS]

I am surprised about how fast the number of players have declined in steam for AoE4,of course RTS is very niche, but I didnt think so niche, we are talking about a new game that has players from SC, Age franchise, Warcraft and other RTS, it doesnt look good at all for the genre and for the game.

 

Age of Empires is objectively a well known and renowned franchise. It has nothing to do with my own preference.

It's well-known in a nice-genre within certain age group of people. Putting it all in perspective and compare it with other popular games just doesn't work out, imho.

but i never claimed or even suggested that
you are arguing a strawman in your head

You are not claiming it directly, but on the other hand you seem to imply that in your comments. Under the hood they seem to have a really high expectation on what AoE4 should be and how it should attract everyone in the franchise and outside and it has had amazing potential, and so on.

No, they played it incompetent. If they wanted to play it safe, they would have included golden standard like hotkeys. AoE 4 has many things in its favor but it also makes fundamental mistakes which are inexcusable.
It would also help if UI thematically fit the game, like it does in pretty much any RTS. Instead what we got in AoE 4 is a soulless unreadable disgrace.

Again, your personal preference obviously and what you think how a game should look like on release and which features it should include. I'm not defending the release and the content here, I'm just stating that it's overall pretty much personal preference it boils down to and some people like AoE4 as it is and wait for more content, updates and patches to issues and will continue playing it. Maybe even long-term.

Now this is a poor joke if I've ever seen one. Relic keeps using the Essence Engine from Company of Heroes that was released fifteen years ago (in 2006) and despite some improvements over the years, it's clearly dated.

Interesting take. You seem to know what you are talking about. Might want to give some insight in your deeper knowledge there. What are the technical improvements exactly over the years, what engine parts are dated? Feel free to give some references there, it's a really interesting topic to me and I'd like to hear more of it from you.

 

[Biz]

4 will have low player retention because the game is half-assed with no replayable single player content. most people will just play campaigns and leave. and that's not as bad as it sounds because that's where the revenue comes from. if they only show up for more DLC and aoe5 and aoe6, that's actually the preferred situation for microsoft. that's mostly unrelated to multiplayer though

since it's a kind of an underwhelming product compared to aoe1/aoe2/aoe3 (and especially SC2), idk how long people will actually play multiplayer for. but in terms of design of just 1v1 PvP, there's more balance between offense/defense/eco in aoe4 than in aoe2's land maps. and there's no score, so there's more strategy instead of just camping behind walls until imperial because you see that you have a score lead and can't lose

i'd rather play 2 because the UI is better, but the maps they put on 2DE ladder are just about playing farmville so i have no reason to actually play it. the food runs out so you have to spend half your eco on farms. and then the farms run out so you have to spend a bunch of res on farms again. and because of this everyone's eco is the same. after being forced to get all the farms and all the upgrades (except stone mining), there's no resources left for any strategy. 0 spare resources in feudal. 0 spare resources in castle. all offense is impotent because of this. and then a sudden shift to infinite spare resources in imperial. it's just completely abysmal map selection by whoever manages the ladder

for overall satisfaction of playing, one of the important things is whether a game is getting better or getting worse. aoe4 is so flawed, that it has a high chance of improving with patches

meanwhile aoe2 is just getting worse and worse and shows no signs of changing. first they let people block random civ. then they let people pick positions. and the balance changes often make the game worse because they're blind to anything that isn't 1v1 ara. and the matchmaking is not good enough outside of 1v1.

 

[lecracheursagacite]

Again, your personal preference obviously and what you think how a game should look like on release and which features it should include. I'm not defending the release and the content here, I'm just stating that it's overall pretty much personal preference it boils down to and some people like AoE4 as it is and wait for more content, updates and patches to issues and will continue playing it. Maybe even long-term

This is nonsense. The ability to customize hotkeys is a basic UX feature on par with things like adjusting graphics settings or sound balance. There is more "personal preference" to his criticism of the UI appearance but notably it is a sentiment has been been broadly expressed by reviewers, even those overall favorable to the game. And like many things that are supposedly "subjective" there are any number of objective constituent factors which can be assessed to provide support for a certain conclusion.

 

[doacid]

I'm surprised at all the people cheering the decline in AoE4 numbers

You must be new then, it's not just about aoe4. For some people in here there's nothing that would make them more happy than seeing aoe2 DE fail miserably. In fact in their mind it actually failed and the game is at its worst state ever.
Furthermore I'm pretty sure there are even people purposely griefing players and abusing matchmaking in every single way they can just to make their delusions a reality.

 

[Lokalo]

You must be new then, it's not just about aoe4. For some people in here there's nothing that would make them more happy than seeing aoe2 DE fail miserably. In fact in their mind it actually failed and the game is at its worst state ever.
Furthermore I'm pretty sure there are even people purposely griefing players and abusing matchmaking in every single way they can just to make their delusions a reality.

Not sure whats the surprise there or pesimism about griefing, there are cheaters and griefers everywhere, what do you even mean?

And is completely logical and normal many aoe2 players want aoe4 not to suceed, especially after tons of comments about aoe4 will kill aoe2 and aoe2 pros leaving to aoe4 and so on.
Many people just want their loved game to stay alive and don't want it to get hit by a new game in any way. What's surprising in that? You remind me of nowadays new's title pages, like they are surprised by everything and shocked by everything too. That is totally logical and predictable reaction. If there wouldn't be any pros leaving to aoe4 and such stuff, aoe2 fan base wouldn't give a s** bout it, but after all those dramas/discussions which game is better and playerbase having huge overlap in both games, it can't really be any other way. If playerbases and communities would be completely different/separate as in aoe2 and SC2 for example, then there would be no such reactions.

 

[Tempires]

Genesis hit 68 187 Peak Viewers and had 45 627 Average Viewers for it's 19 hours airtime. (T90's views from Facebook don't seem to be counted as only twitch and youtube mentioned as platforms)

 

[Lokalo]

Genesis hit 68 187 Peak Viewers and had 45 627 Average Viewers for it's 19 hours airtime. (T90's views from Facebook don't seem to be counted as only twitch and youtube mentioned as platforms)

Well I think it is quite impressive, according steam there were ~150k peak or something. Although I don't think it matters much, it was super new game, many people including me were watching it who favors aoe2 and atleast I don't plan watching next tournament, just wanted to look how competitive play looks like there, might look another tournament after some bigger patches to see how game evolved, but my point is, many people tuned in to check, there were many streamers who might not be around anymore already. So the next tournament's numbers will be more clear how aoe4 actually doing.

Btw, when is the closest tournament for aoe4?

 

[nimanoe]

Btw, when is the closest tournament for aoe4?

Steelseries Prime Cup has been announced and will have a $20k prizepool (same as Genesis), which will be the next big tournament and will happen on 18/19 December