Current Situation on Aoe4 and Aoe2

[z3us]

Well reading this, first thing in my mind, do you even play? Or do you just watch? Cause feels like you don't play yourself.

If you speed m@a, they will destroy archers, while archers are the counter to m@a. I understand what you trying to say, but your suggestions are as terrible as they can get. And without introducing more units, I don't think that can be changed too much. Make m@a better against archers and you will see m@a only in feudal.

What I agree with, that they could improve TG, but mostly matchmaking, it just sucks.

I could ask you the same question. Do you even play? Celt maa are faster, do they destroy archers? Nope, not at all. Just better at covering distance and a slightly viable option. Maybe if you combine celt and malian bonus, maa will come out on top.

There are a lot of ways to change without introducing new mechanics or units, but the question is do the devs even want to change the archer/kt meta?

 

[Murador]

@Hunyadi_ It's not like the GL boys always focus on the tournaments that are going on - They prepared a lot for KotD with really strong performances. Now there was Steel Series, Winter Series, and the 3v3 in AoE IV - ofc they are now catching up to the AoE IV meta to try to compete there - They will be back for the 25k$ Nomad tournament - nothing to do with disrespect.

I actually enjoy playing both games - TGs in AoE II, 1v1 in AoE IV. I can understand Hera not enjoying AoE II so much lately - I also don't enjoy playing Arabia anymore - it's overall quite a versatile map - but in the end, it's mostly execution as everybody at okayish level nows the 5 starting build orders and follow-ups. I enjoy more the weird maps like Nomad, Sokotra, Teamislands(in TGs) these days. And that's clearly the fun thing about AoE IV atm - the meta changes every week and different people have very different opinions on civ strength atm.

TLDR: We need chaos pit, Hypermegarandom (Megarandom gens are rly boring these days - half of the games are arabia anyway with a bit different food sources) in the mappool for some peak AoE II.

 

[just_sum_guy]

Personally, I have no interest in AOE4, but I also don't have much interest in 2 either. I'm so sick of 1v1 tournaments. It seems like it's been years since we've had a compelling TG tournament. It's even more unfortunate because the TG meta in 2 really seems to favor yolo strategies now, as we saw when WWP was wiping the floor with everyone in showmatches. There are some good TG storylines right now because I really don't think GL, AM or Suomi can beat the Chinese.

 

[Sticky Ice Cream]

TLDR: We need chaos pit, Hypermegarandom (Megarandom gens are rly boring these days - half of the games are arabia anyway with a bit different food sources) in the mappool for some peak AoE II.

I agree. Arabia can still be sometimes fun to watch, but playing Arabia nowadays is boring. It's so optimized that execution vs. strategy is grossly unbalanced in favor of execution. And this has to do more with map design and general balance changes rather than the average skill and experience level of the player base. There are far better maps for players wanting an "anything goes" experience.

 

[longinator]

Twitch

Twitch is the world's leading video platform and community for gamers.

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We did it Reddit!
But seriously, Jordan is planning to stream both AoE2 and AoE4. Later in his stream, he also said that he may play AoE4 completely offstream.

Twitch

Twitch is the world's leading video platform and community for gamers.

clips.twitch.tv

Hope it will work well for him!

 

[MaSmOrRa]

I am not sure that their skills play a big part in that.

I forgot to reply to this.
I disagree, I think it plays a huge part.

Viper was always one of the most popular streamers, even when his streams were just him playing AoE with music in the background. No talking.
And that's because everyone knew and could see he was the best player in the world.
The fact DeMusliM now has a lot more viewers after winning SteelSeries kind of confirms this, I believe.

There's just something incredibly soothing about watching people being excellent at what they do.

That's why I love watching YouTube videos of commercial pilots landing planes even though I hate flying and I love watching cooking videos even though I hate cooking :D

 

[Halleju]

Twitch

Twitch is the world's leading video platform and community for gamers.

clips.twitch.tv

Twitch

Twitch is the world's leading video platform and community for gamers.

clips.twitch.tv

We did it Reddit!
But seriously, Jordan is planning to stream both AoE2 and AoE4. Later in his stream, he also said that he may play AoE4 completely offstream.

Twitch

Twitch is the world's leading video platform and community for gamers.

clips.twitch.tv

Hope it will work well for him!

Well yesterday I followed his viewer numbers while streaming Aoe4 through the twitch overview over a couple of hours and he had like 200-400 tops. Most of his Aoe2 viewers are not interested in watching him play Aoe4 it seems.

 

[LaaaaaN]

AoE2 has more players than AoE4. AoE4 has been disappointing since the release. Bugs, bad maps, unbalanced civs, etc... Only 2 months after the release and numbers are getting worse and worse, can't imagine how it's going to be when big streamers decide to go back to SC2 or AoE2. AoE4 will become another AoE3

 

[Rorarimbo]

I forgot to reply to this.
I disagree, I think it plays a huge part.

Viper was always one of the most popular streamers, even when his streams were just him playing AoE with music in the background. No talking.
And that's because everyone knew and could see he was the best player in the world.
The fact DeMusliM now has a lot more viewers after winning SteelSeries kind of confirms this, I believe.

There's just something incredibly soothing about watching people being excellent at what they do.

That's why I love watching YouTube videos of commercial pilots landing planes even though I hate flying and I love watching cooking videos even though I hate cooking :D

What I mean is its still too early for them to show extraordinary AoE4 skills. DeMislim I have on the radar (AoEZone streams sidebar) with good numbers before the Steel series. I haven't followed closely his viewership before and after but I feel he was doing similarly before the tournament.

I guess if The Viper was still on twitch we could have been able to see how it works for him having won Genesis.

As I said I can't say much for DeMuslim but as a streamer, I have noticed the positive effect of AoE4 has for WinterGaming. He is mostly SC2 content creator but tries different games, AoE4 in particular recently. And despite this effect is declining often he has more viewers if he is streaming AoE4 compared to SC2 or other games. DeMuslim is also coming from SC2. What I feel is SC2 viewers are much less conservative and open towards AoE4 than AoE2 fans are. We can debate the reasons (SC2 is a newer game, they have a tense relationship between Blizzard and the community; SC2 hasn't been patched for a while, etc.) but for me seems to be the case. This is interesting because SC2 really high-level players pay little to no attention to the game while in AoE2 is the opposite.

Here comes a different idea. That it seems logical to try and be an elite player/streamer in a new field if it is too hard for you to get to the top of the game where you are at. We can see smth like that with AoE2 casters. Memb, Dave and T90 seem to be still enjoying much more AoE2, while smbd like Lidakor sees his chance in AoE4 (for a good reason). On the other hand, I can see most of the top 20 players trying out AoE4 while I would expect people about the top 50 or even top 100 in AoE2 to grind and raise high in the ranks of AoE4. While players in the top 20 try and keep their own field competitive and successful, a place where they have established themselves already.

Of cource the easy explanation is despite the recent success AoE2 is an old and niche game especially compared to SC2 which is much more mainstream. Considering this trying to be a big part of smth bigger is maybe what some people are thinking. The problem is however AoE4 seems not to be doing so great as many have expected. I'm not at all sure it will turn out to be a successful competitive game.

 

[SuperskinnyBLS]

I checked Daut yesterday and he had like 900(?) biewers 2 hours into the stream of aoe2 so I guess the demand is very big for a gameplay of a GOOD game : )

 

[Degaussed]

I don't know about anyone else, but to me it feels like there is currently a gap in the Twitch market for a high level player/streamer to stream some AOE2...

 

[DracKeN]

Here comes a different idea. That it seems logical to try and be an elite player/streamer in a new field if it is too hard for you to get to the top of the game where you are at. We can see smth like that with AoE2 casters. Memb, Dave and T90 seem to be still enjoying much more AoE2, while smbd like Lidakor sees his chance in AoE4 (for a good reason). On the other hand, I can see most of the top 20 players trying out AoE4 while I would expect people about the top 50 or even top 100 in AoE2 to grind and raise high in the ranks of AoE4. While players in the top 20 try and keep their own field competitive and successful, a place where they have established themselves already.

Of cource the easy explanation is despite the recent success AoE2 is an old and niche game especially compared to SC2 which is much more mainstream. Considering this trying to be a big part of smth bigger is maybe what some people are thinking. The problem is however AoE4 seems not to be doing so great as many have expected. I'm not at all sure it will turn out to be a successful competitive game.

I agree with you, I was also expecting way more players from AoE II top50-top100 range to focus on AoE IV. However, I think it made more sense for top players with major tournament achievements that are more fed up with the game to focus on AoE IV right since the start. Most of those even got early access + they have significantly more time for the game if they want, so the way towards achievements in the first events should be heavily in their favour (basically happening so far). I thought dedicated non - full time players will start getting deeper in the tournaments step by step, but at this point it is also very clear that AoE II will be way stronger (regarding both player and viewer base) than AoE IV within few weeks, so committing time into improving in AoE IV (if your goal are tournament achievements) likely isn't the most profitable thing at this point.

 

[Vossn]

What I mean is its still too early for them to show extraordinary AoE4 skills. DeMislim I have on the radar (AoEZone streams sidebar) with good numbers before the Steel series. I haven't followed closely his viewership before and after but I feel he was doing similarly before the tournament.

I guess if The Viper was still on twitch we could have been able to see how it works for him having won Genesis.

As I said I can't say much for DeMuslim but as a streamer, I have noticed the positive effect of AoE4 has for WinterGaming. He is mostly SC2 content creator but tries different games, AoE4 in particular recently. And despite this effect is declining often he has more viewers if he is streaming AoE4 compared to SC2 or other games. DeMuslim is also coming from SC2. What I feel is SC2 viewers are much less conservative and open towards AoE4 than AoE2 fans are. We can debate the reasons (SC2 is a newer game, they have a tense relationship between Blizzard and the community; SC2 hasn't been patched for a while, etc.) but for me seems to be the case. This is interesting because SC2 really high-level players pay little to no attention to the game while in AoE2 is the opposite.

Here comes a different idea. That it seems logical to try and be an elite player/streamer in a new field if it is too hard for you to get to the top of the game where you are at. We can see smth like that with AoE2 casters. Memb, Dave and T90 seem to be still enjoying much more AoE2, while smbd like Lidakor sees his chance in AoE4 (for a good reason). On the other hand, I can see most of the top 20 players trying out AoE4 while I would expect people about the top 50 or even top 100 in AoE2 to grind and raise high in the ranks of AoE4. While players in the top 20 try and keep their own field competitive and successful, a place where they have established themselves already.

Of cource the easy explanation is despite the recent success AoE2 is an old and niche game especially compared to SC2 which is much more mainstream. Considering this trying to be a big part of smth bigger is maybe what some people are thinking. The problem is however AoE4 seems not to be doing so great as many have expected. I'm not at all sure it will turn out to be a successful competitive game.

I think the biggest part of the more open nature of the SC2 community is exactly due to those top level players not running over. Whereas in AoE2, suddenly all the top players played only aoe4 for a while. It's true, now they are slowly coming back. At least some of them do. This left many aoe2 viewers without really big names to watch, whereas the larger SC2 community still managed just fine. That is the thing which caused a lot of malcontent within the community and not necessarily aoe4 themselves. Add to that the discomfort of suddenly having the 2 biggest streamers for the English-speaking audience change from platform, thereby splitting the community and causing a lot of discomfort.

The game AoE4 itself did not really have any particular role in it. It was just one of the things discomfort and uncertainty were geared towards. I do wonnder though, did a similar thing occur with the Voobly->DE shift? I only watched youtube at the time, but I do remember some complaints about pathing being bad(which improved and worsened as time went on), and a few other issues, but nothing really groundbreaking.

 

[DracKeN]

The game AoE4 itself did not really have any particular role in it. It was just one of the things discomfort and uncertainty were geared towards. I do wonnder though, did a similar thing occur with the Voobly->DE shift? I only watched youtube at the time, but I do remember some complaints about pathing being bad(which improved and worsened as time went on), and a few other issues, but nothing really groundbreaking.

Obviously this is not comparable, as DE was just AoE II from Voobly with extra features (and major glitches in the start). Looking back, I'd say Voobly AoE II was the better game for first 2-3 months of DE, but everyone knew DE will be better within months. And the most important thing was, that on Voobly you waited for 30+ mins on average for high level game, on DE you waited 3-5.

Obviously there were negative comments when DE came out, but I think most of the people changed their mind within first 10 games.. Arguably 95% of the community saw DE in a positive way within a month.

 

[kw1k000000]

I think the biggest part of the more open nature of the SC2 community is exactly due to those top level players not running over. Whereas in AoE2, suddenly all the top players played only aoe4 for a while.

not only just this but tournaments as well. SC2 has its tournament calendar and most of top 50 pros staying with the game. If I was into SC2, aoe4 release would not even register on my radar.

 

[lecracheursagacite]

I forgot to reply to this.
I disagree, I think it plays a huge part.

Viper was always one of the most popular streamers, even when his streams were just him playing AoE with music in the background. No talking.
And that's because everyone knew and could see he was the best player in the world.
The fact DeMusliM now has a lot more viewers after winning SteelSeries kind of confirms this, I believe.

There's just something incredibly soothing about watching people being excellent at what they do.

That's why I love watching YouTube videos of commercial pilots landing planes even though I hate flying and I love watching cooking videos even though I hate cooking :D

As a piano player I think you are particularly predisposed to enjoy this 11

You are also right that a player being the best at something means they can get the biggest streams with the least effort. Faker in League is a perfect example of this. He does not stream consistently but any time he does stream he is one of the top channels by viewer count. If not now this at least how it used to be during his prime.

 

[HongeyKong]

I don't know about anyone else, but to me it feels like there is currently a gap in the Twitch market for a high level player/streamer to stream some AOE2...

For real, FB + AOE4 created a huge gap.

 

[IYIyTh]

Seeing these quotes I fear Hera is not in a great state of mind. I hope I am wrong but looks to me he is pushing himself too hard. It's often what a young man does until he finds his limits. I have had such moment when i had a small company and things were not going well. Only in the last month he tried to be competitive, stream and upload content in Youtube for both AoE2 and AoE4. During KotD4 he was streaming it and co-casting with Memb. His motivation was more than fine until he lost to Jordan and he spent the next week fully committed to AoE4. Than he lost to Vinchester and we haven't seen stream AoE2 since. Meanwhile he had also responded to Nili`s tweet he might be interested to organise an AoE2 event. Seems he is at a place where every decision is penultimate. Even if he is enjoying more with AoE4 looking at these numbers drop is always stressful for a streamer. I wish him well, but what I think he really needs now is a few days rest where he can relax. Perhaps even play offline but be away from the public eyes for a while.

Somehow I think they'll all be just fine. Hera having already secured enough funds to start/finish a college education 3-5x over if he wished. The kid is making money, and decent sums of it where most people are going into debt for uncertain future gains at the age. So long as the T90's/Hera's of the world hire decent financial planners and don't commit the same fallacy as other professions such as medical doctors (I am successful in X field, thus I must be also able to expertly judge financial investments,) or have incessant gambling habits they'll all just be fine.

 

[SamIamLSC]

I will say that this forum has been great bed time reading material.

I love playing and watching both games. And with respect to the topic, honestly who cares. AOE2 will still be great and will continue to have a solid fan base. Only the future will tell for AOE4 , and so far I have been liking it. I will continue to support both in the future. That being said, the negativity from the die hard aoe2 chat community has been making the aoe2 community look very toxic which is sad.

But to the AOE2 crybaby die hards, keep posting. These posts are so entertaining, it is awesome. Keep up the great posts, I will keep reading every couple of nights, lol. Hopefully some of you will respond to this last part as it would bring me joy.

Happy holidays!

 

[SouFire]

I am gonna make a post pretending to be smarter by making fun of those who mock about aoe4, i hope it serves you well sir.

 

[oozkan]

But to the AOE2 crybaby die hards, keep posting. These posts are so entertaining, it is awesome. Keep up the great posts, I will keep reading every couple of nights, lol. Hopefully some of you will respond to this last part as it would bring me joy.

Happy holidays!

Registering on Nov 12, 2021, a forum mainly dominated by AOE2 fans, making your first post to mock about AOE2 crybaby die hards and crying out attention with your last sentence. I posted this response so that you can be happy, because you definetely need it. Merry Christmas.

 

[oozkan]

Btw, related to subject, I was checking Viper's youtube channel today, for the last 2 weeks, his AOE2 videos have 10-20K views and AOE4 versions never hit 10K, at least while I am writing post they didn't. I think soon he can follow Jordan's route.

 

[DaisyChain]

Btw, related to subject, I was checking Viper's youtube channel today, for the last 2 weeks, his AOE2 videos have 10-20K views and AOE4 versions never hit 10K, at least while I am writing post they didn't. I think soon he can follow Jordan's route.

The major difference is that Viper is competing in AoE4 and gaining a lot of money there too. For now, he can get the best of both worlds by playing both games and winning/being top 4 in both. A small loss in YouTube income is a small price to pay for that. Also I don't think he is that focused on those numbers now that the FB deal offers some security.

 

[oozkan]

The major difference is that Viper is competing in AoE4 and gaining a lot of money there too. For now, he can get the best of both worlds by playing both games and winning/being top 4 in both. A small loss in YouTube income is a small price to pay for that. Also I don't think he is that focused on those numbers now that the FB deal offers some security.

You are right, if he was another player my words would make sense but in this case, you are definetely right. Thanks for pointing out.

 

[Tempires]

www.douyu.com has it's own category for aoe4, meanwhile previous titles are still on "classic
/nostalgia" category or now on aoe4 category,