BoA3 | Discussion

[Lightysword]

Great tournament! Congratulations to AM for an amazing comeback in the final and overall an amazing tournament performence. Actually I think that MBL had an outstanding tournament and is for me the best individual player of the tournament. His style got AM out of trouble when it needed to. Really well done. Taking nothing away from the other team members away of course.
Also shoutout to GL who came really really close and also would've deserved to win the final.
What I found profoundly interesting in the final that both AM and GL took the maps you would not necessarily expect them to win. That added to the whole experience for sure.
In my oppinion BO9 for the final is fine. I would not mind a set break of half an hour between the games as well actually. With BOAs super aggressive maps BO9 is not Overkill in my oppinion.
That said I would love some more closed maps and imperial fights with huge armies and trade but I know that this is not really BOA style.
So what it can offer it certainly delivered.
Production quality was really nice so shoutout to everyone invovled.

Also shoutout to Vinch and Fire who were really good cocasters. You can really bring those back. I also liked Ornlu quite a bit both individually and together with Memb at some point.

Really happy as well that the viewer numbers were really good, especially considering the weather and that TG don't attract that many ppl. Already looking forward to the next big team game tournament. I really hope the promising teams like Los Machos, MyInsanity and Amigos keep improving!

Cheers!

 

[miguelzin]

Epic final! Congrats to all.

As the esport scene is getting more competitive, the production is getting better, prize pool is higher as well. Players need to get everything prepared mentally & physically.

It is quite obvious GL's level dropped significantly in the last few games, more mistakes and bad judgement made. But long break is not an option for me personally, the tournament can last forever otherwise... bad for viewer and everything. Short break is all good to me but time has to be limited .

Also I think BO9 is reasonable for me BO7 seems a bit underwhelming for a S-tier tournament.

In between csgo matches on tournaments theres 15-20 minutes break, most of boa games were played one after the other. Players are not robots, theres nothing to complain about that.

 

[paradox303]

IMO it would be much better to have scheduled and dedicated break time. Then all parties can prepare for potential breaks i.e streamer, admins, players and viewers.

AFAIK players were allowed to take breaks whenever, but everyone experiences fatigue at different times and in different ways, regular 10 minutes after every game would be great, but understand could be difficult in terms of fulfilling air time. However, keeping the competitive to the highest standard should be of the biggest priority moving forward and there are still a lot of improvements we can make.

 

[R0ca]

Bo9 is perfect. It’s an s tier tournament final. Not a show match.

 

[Tarsiz]

IT was only too long because the two teams were evenly matched.

Each game went on for a very long time, because the teams were so matched that they couldn't just stomp over the enemy and finish fast.

This would've been very long, even if it was just a BO7 (though we would've got only 6 games since GL would've taken it 4-2).
While in contrast, the BO7 in semis ended fast, because most of the games themselves were short.

Sure, but here is the caveat.

If the teams are not evenly matched and it is a stomp, does it really matter that it ends 5-0 instead of 4-0? It might feel even worse for the losing team. I agree it does still give a chance to the losing team to get a game in, like a 4-0 might end up in 5-1 and give you 2 more games, but generally it will be pretty clear one team is very ahead of the other.

It's an S tier tournament final, but the players are also human. Judging from some of the messages on this thread, viewers want: 1) a high level evenly matched final 2) at least a BO9 3) no breaks whatsoever. That is not going to work.

I imagine you could plan for downtime ahead of time. Have some sort of analyst desk ready to talk about games that just finished while the players are taking a break before the next one. Have someone tell the story of the BoA 1 and 2 finals and draw parallels with this one. Have someone review the rivalry between aM and GL and explain why this match is meaningful, etc. There are plenty of ways to keep the audience engaged while giving time to players to breathe.

 

[LeoMontero]

First, congrats to all organizers and plaeyers.
second, really good final, i was chearing for GL, (im 36 y.o. and am more identified with the old guys of GL, specially Daut) but well, am deserves the win.
third, cameras are perfect.
fourth, Bo9 for finals is the way to go. here there are some things to take into account in my perspective. the finals should start sooner. 2 hours maybe sooner. the thing with the lenght in a bo9 is part of the game, the chalenge. the stamina, the decisions when you are tired.
fifth, the pauses. they were fine to me, people today has no patience. enjoy the ride. something to add here, like someone said, is to have fixed pauses. like 10 mins between games. and in this time make an in depht analisis of the game and the next game and civs.
final, i think that GL throw the last 2 games. and the second draft they also lost it. specially for the final game.
players that i expect less but did a super job, ruben, he stepped up his game a lot, vivi, and mbl.

 

[JUDAS]

I have seen in other games that they make a review with some spolights of the last game, in order to fill the breaks. 8-10 minutes break between games beginning one hour earlier could be good.

 

[FeAge]

First, congrats to all organizers and plaeyers.
second, really good final, i was chearing for GL, (im 36 y.o. and am more identified with the old guys of GL, specially Daut) but well, am deserves the win.
third, cameras are perfect.
fourth, Bo9 for finals is the way to go. here there are some things to take into account in my perspective. the finals should start sooner. 2 hours maybe sooner. the thing with the lenght in a bo9 is part of the game, the chalenge. the stamina, the decisions when you are tired.
fifth, the pauses. they were fine to me, people today has no patience. enjoy the ride. something to add here, like someone said, is to have fixed pauses. like 10 mins between games. and in this time make an in depht analisis of the game and the next game and civs.
final, i think that GL throw the last 2 games. and the second draft they also lost it. specially for the final game.
players that i expect less but did a super job, ruben, he stepped up his game a lot, vivi, and mbl.

Spot on. That would be perfect.
If you guys watch CS GO, on big tournaments they have a person just to analyze the games and talk about strategies and in-game decisions. Having a guy just for this particular role in the tournament would make it very interesting. He could watch the game and take notes and then discuss about the game after it and what is even better is that player could take a small break to relax a bit and discuss strats for the next game.

 

[Lightysword]

Spot on. That would be perfect.
If you guys watch CS GO, on big tournaments they have a person just to analyze the games and talk about strategies and in-game decisions. Having a guy just for this particular role in the tournament would make it very interesting. He could watch the game and take notes and then discuss about the game after it and what is even better is that player could take a small break to relax a bit and discuss strats for the next game.

Indeed. Especialy if the games are good, theres potentially so much to talk about. Someone not having to cast as the game runs can weigh in and provide analysis. 10 minutes between games or a longer half time pause could be filled easily I suppose. I'd actually like that better than seeing a map introduction several times (which is fine ofc as they are well done, but not ideal at the same time).

 

[Paulad]

Spot on. That would be perfect.
If you guys watch CS GO, on big tournaments they have a person just to analyze the games and talk about strategies and in-game decisions. Having a guy just for this particular role in the tournament would make it very interesting. He could watch the game and take notes and then discuss about the game after it and what is even better is that player could take a small break to relax a bit and discuss strats for the next game.

That's actualy a great idea. People complain about pause nowadays but when you watch LEC/LCS/ERL in league of legends, they take time to analyze moves after each games + something like 10 minutes pause after that. Adding the analyze part could be great addition!

 

[Musashi]

Amazing tournament thank you Memb for putting it together and congrats to AM!

I also dig BO9! Remember this is for entertainment and a dramatic 5-4 is 100% more entertaining than a 4-2.

 

[covaccino99]

That's actualy a great idea. People complain about pause nowadays but when you watch LEC/LCS/ERL in league of legends, they take time to analyze moves after each games + something like 10 minutes pause after that. Adding the analyze part could be great addition!

Agree! This ”they are starting, they are starting!” needs to go. Fixed 10 minute breaks with countdown would be great, with maybe 30 minutes in the middle. Then it’s possible to have a walk in between. Predictability is key.

 

[Michaerbse]

Nobody remembering A-Nili-sys... FeelsNiliMan

 

[Chrazini]

Agree! This ”they are starting, they are starting!” needs to go. Fixed 10 minute breaks with countdown would be great, with maybe 30 minutes in the middle. Then it’s possible to have a walk in between. Predictability is key.

This is certainly something we'd love to work towards; however, with how some players treat punctuality, this would not currently work, and I'm afraid it would make these breaks look even worse as we would have to constantly deviate from the proposed timer.
We do love the idea of fixed breaks, though, but game lengths can also vary a lot in such a series. If the first three games are only 20 minutes each, but the next three games are 2 hours each, suddenly there's an imbalance. At least, that was the reasoning behind not including it this time around.

However, with all my excuses out of the way, I do think there's something to be done to find a better middle ground.

 

[SuperskinnyBLS]

Final should havestarted earlier anyway

 

[covaccino99]

This is certainly something we'd love to work towards; however, with how some players treat punctuality, this would not currently work, and I'm afraid it would make these breaks look even worse as we would have to constantly deviate from the proposed timer.
We do love the idea of fixed breaks, though, but game lengths can also vary a lot in such a series. If the first three games are only 20 minutes each, but the next three games are 2 hours each, suddenly there's an imbalance. At least, that was the reasoning behind not including it this time around.

However, with all my excuses out of the way, I do think there's something to be done to find a better middle ground.

Yeah, i know. Maybe not suitable now. I remember NAC3 when there was a non-defined break in the middle of the finals and then suddenly a timer appeared with countdown for 30 minutes, and i just went "great, then ill get some food". Many people stayed and donated too. I think Nili picked up on this from the feedback of the ECL Finals with the really long and unpredictable breaks.

 

[TopperHarley]

Tbh i think organisation and production of Boa3 was amazing and in the grand final it was close to perfect. Loved everything that was implemented:

• Player cams are amazing
• POV was used very well
• BO9 for the finals is also perfect choice (a bit tough on the players but the viewers should really not complain. Good that players got some rest in between games)
• Vinchester was (as expected) and amazing cocaster, he pointed out so many important things that the "usual" non-expert cocaster just wouldnt

This was for sure one of the best organized tournaments ever, and the grand finals up there with the best series' in Aoe2 history!

 

[Nicov]

Bo9 is fine, we are talking about a $5000 difference between 1st and 2nd placement. All it takes is playing 1 day for a few hours.

 

[oozkan]

Bo9 is fine, we are talking about a $5000 difference between 1st and 2nd placement. All it takes is playing 1 day for a few hours.

And like thousands of games past 10-20 years.

 

[bird_person]

Bo9 is fine, we are talking about a $5000 difference between 1st and 2nd placement. All it takes is playing 1 day for a few hours.

or not play

 

[miek]

What an amazing tournament BOA3 was. Very professional production considering the resources. Loved the webcams, maps and interviews.

Glad the AOE2 scene is back in full swing.

 

[nimanoe]

Great tournament with an amazing conclusion.
I think the player cams were great, felt like they added something, the interviews were fun as well.

I think the idea of having the communication between teams recorded is pretty cool, maybe in the future it's possible to release some highlights as a video or something. Especially hearing the winning moments from people would be sick.
I understand the problems with revealing strategies by showing the live communications, but showing short clips wouldn't really have that problem. The main problem would probably be that it requires a lot of time to record all the communication, to store it and then to edit it. I'm not sure if we're currently at the level of production that we can afford it, but we're getting close at least.

On a sidenote: Why aren't any players recording their POV and making a youtube video out of it? Surely that would get more views than a ranked game. If you're afraid of sharing strats you could wait till the event is over to make the vids public

 

[Lokalo]

Great tournament with an amazing conclusion.
I think the player cams were great, felt like they added something, the interviews were fun as well.

I think the idea of having the communication between teams recorded is pretty cool, maybe in the future it's possible to release some highlights as a video or something. Especially hearing the winning moments from people would be sick.
I understand the problems with revealing strategies by showing the live communications, but showing short clips wouldn't really have that problem. The main problem would probably be that it requires a lot of time to record all the communication, to store it and then to edit it. I'm not sure if we're currently at the level of production that we can afford it, but we're getting close at least.

On a sidenote: Why aren't any players recording their POV and making a youtube video out of it? Surely that would get more views than a ranked game. If you're afraid of sharing strats you could wait till the event is over to make the vids public

Actually Hera asked his team mates if he can do that, not sure if he did. Maybe he will release a video of that sometime soon.

But yes, could be interesting to see some highlights, for example being 2:4 down what they were talking, if they did still believe they can come back, like few fragments. Like some fragments from both teams after every game how mood changes up. As could clearly see aM being down 2:4 didn't have smiles on their faces anymore, so I bet could see that in communication too. Ofc is hard to pick enough to bring their emotions without showing too much and taking out all the bad words away which im pretty sure there have been quite a bit 11

 

[Potkeny]

Ofc is hard to pick enough to bring their emotions without showing too much and taking out all the bad words away which im pretty sure there have been quite a bit 11

It's always hilarious to see foreign organizers showing timeout/coach's advice of non-english participants, 'cos they play all the swearing with full volume and it falls to the local commentators to somehow salvage the situation 11

 

[Sextilidan]

Great tournament with an amazing conclusion.
I think the player cams were great, felt like they added something, the interviews were fun as well.

I think the idea of having the communication between teams recorded is pretty cool, maybe in the future it's possible to release some highlights as a video or something. Especially hearing the winning moments from people would be sick.
I understand the problems with revealing strategies by showing the live communications, but showing short clips wouldn't really have that problem. The main problem would probably be that it requires a lot of time to record all the communication, to store it and then to edit it. I'm not sure if we're currently at the level of production that we can afford it, but we're getting close at least.

On a sidenote: Why aren't any players recording their POV and making a youtube video out of it? Surely that would get more views than a ranked game. If you're afraid of sharing strats you could wait till the event is over to make the vids public

I think some of the GL players might be doing that. I can't remember where, but I think I saw a funny clip compilation that appeared to contain PoV footage (and audio) from a BoA match. I think it might've been one of Viper's break compilations.