With the introduction of new civs and units, that are actually strongest than all we saw in AOK and AoC, i think the old civs deserve more love and also they should be measured heavyweighters vs heavyweighters, so far using a new civ vs an old one it feels like 100 pounds vs 60 pounds.
I understand that mangudai and mameluke were the strongest units in AOC and the balance changes maybe suits them vs aoc civs and balance, but we are no longer playing AoC. We have now several tank units such as rattan archer, battle ele, husk champs from malies, new tarkans, EW from incas, imp camels and ballista eles and of course cav arch killers such as the genoese crossbowman,imp skirms and the camel archer, with those units the actual mangudai stands no chance, but maybe the old elite mangudai could do better vs at least imp camel, champhusk, and specially vs battle eles, the same logic applies to mameluke which also suffers and struggles a lot with the new delay.
Also the second UT for both mongol and saracens are useless, those civs were terrible penalized, i have seen with my own eyes how bad is the new mangudai in terms of cost effective unit it is better to go HCA instead of mangudais, the bonus vs siege doesn't justify the extra cost for the unit and the need of castles, using them doesn't feel right they struggle vs halbs now and die vs paladins.
The reasons to consider to get back their old rate of fire are:
Mangudai cost much more than ca, requires castles, elite upgrade is way more expensive than HCA and it has several new counters that didn't exist in aoc.
Going Mamelukes is the most expensive inversion in the game, dying vs halbs now it feels bad in several ways, they should theoretically destroy battle eles, but they can't even perform hit and run vs khmer eles, imperial camel is just better than mameluke and it is not an UU from castle it is a uu from stables, paladins now get better trades vs them because of the delay, the unit by itself and its current state is not worth the gold inversion, plus the civ has 0 eco bonuses.
can some mod fix the poll ._.
I understand that mangudai and mameluke were the strongest units in AOC and the balance changes maybe suits them vs aoc civs and balance, but we are no longer playing AoC. We have now several tank units such as rattan archer, battle ele, husk champs from malies, new tarkans, EW from incas, imp camels and ballista eles and of course cav arch killers such as the genoese crossbowman,imp skirms and the camel archer, with those units the actual mangudai stands no chance, but maybe the old elite mangudai could do better vs at least imp camel, champhusk, and specially vs battle eles, the same logic applies to mameluke which also suffers and struggles a lot with the new delay.
Also the second UT for both mongol and saracens are useless, those civs were terrible penalized, i have seen with my own eyes how bad is the new mangudai in terms of cost effective unit it is better to go HCA instead of mangudais, the bonus vs siege doesn't justify the extra cost for the unit and the need of castles, using them doesn't feel right they struggle vs halbs now and die vs paladins.
The reasons to consider to get back their old rate of fire are:
Mangudai cost much more than ca, requires castles, elite upgrade is way more expensive than HCA and it has several new counters that didn't exist in aoc.
Going Mamelukes is the most expensive inversion in the game, dying vs halbs now it feels bad in several ways, they should theoretically destroy battle eles, but they can't even perform hit and run vs khmer eles, imperial camel is just better than mameluke and it is not an UU from castle it is a uu from stables, paladins now get better trades vs them because of the delay, the unit by itself and its current state is not worth the gold inversion, plus the civ has 0 eco bonuses.
can some mod fix the poll ._.