Really? Where are they all? And where are all these people who agree sicilians and others weren't nerfed hard enough as well? Show me one person across all forums who agrees on every point? The only person who comes close is sou and he's not banned over there so no need for him to have a new account.There are tons of people who said the samething on all aoe groups, reddit, aoezone, forums, LOL.
Ok, let me make reddit and forum account then I will post there 11Really? Where are they all? And where are all these people who agree sicilians and others weren't nerfed hard enough as well? Show me one person across all forums who agrees on every point? The only person who comes close is sou and he's not banned over there so no need for him to have a new account.
I can't tell if you're overthinking this or what, but you are definitely wrong to say that these civs actually got better. Even if we go by your logic, they get marginally better vs some weaker archer civs while definitely getting worse vs cav civs. In no way can you consider Ethiopians / Chinese / Mayans being improved after this change.Ethiopians get +100g, +100f each age, xbow upgrade get +50g/+50f, so it is like nothing to Ethiopians. Chinese already have 15% discount in castle age, Mayans already have great eco with archers discount, so what does all this mean? This mean those top 3 archers civs are more than fine and the generic civs will be worse. See how this make these 3 civs even better?
But that wasn't his claim, and it's besides the point. I do agree that mayans, Chinese and britons need nerfs elsewhere but this patch seems more targeted at cav civs and new civsIt's more like that cost increase will hurt civs with weaker eco bonus more than civs with good eco like mayans, chinese, ..
Not saying exactly being improved. But this change won't do anything to them comparing to the generic civs which will make the gap even bigger. What I wanted to say you can't make a general nerf without nerfing some strong civs in specific points.I can't tell if you're overthinking this or what, but you are definitely wrong to say that these civs actually got better. Even if we go by your logic, they get marginally better vs some weaker archer civs while definitely getting worse vs cav civs. In no way can you consider Ethiopians / Chinese / Mayans being improved after this change.
So if I have to invest 175 wood and 140 gold in making my vills 15% faster (even when investing those resources in early castle age could mean I die because I'm not investing in army) - it's broken because they're now Ferraris at 15% but Berber vills which are 10% faster for free are not even Alfa Romeo?
OMEGALUL. Sicilians are one of the most broken civs in the game and you think they were fine?! OMG. The 50% less bonus damage is the most broken bonus in the game, actually this nerf is not even enough, Sicilians need more nerfs. The civ from the beginning have wrong and bad design. It will be better to remove the civ from the game then redesign it then bring it back again. Their 1st crusade, Hauberk, 300 stone in the start and the 100% build faster all of these things are wrong and need to be deleted not to be nerfed.I understand how frustrating Sicilian Cav can be, but that is part of their identity and with 33% reduction, they’ll likely drop very close to the bottom of the list. Meanwhile, the nerfs to Gurjaras are unlikely to have any impact whatsoever to their overwhelming dominance. Heck, we thought Sicilians would be a counter to Gurjaras when it first came out, and look where we are now. Sicilians are most definitely no problem civ, and I honestly don’t think they need that nerf. If anything, as some have said, maybe nerf their Castle speed?
I've been refreshing YouTube all day yesterday. 10 times an hour, 5 times a minute, 2 times a second. I thought my IP got banned so I also set up a refreshing script on mom's laptop and dad's pager. I told kids in neighborhood to give me a shout if they see their vids. I've observed birds' patterns looking for clues but it started raining. It's been three years already, i have grown silver beard and am still waiting for rescue.
I agree, but you can go even further. Take away the extra berries altogether. I did a test with no extra berries and was able to do a 20 pop build (loom right before clicking up) on Arabia with only 5 seconds of idle TC, mostly from not force dropping the last boar when I wanted to go up. I didn't even make any farm w/o horse collar, and I was able to make 2 scouts right away, and another soon after. Actual high level players can no doubt do a perfect build.The Eco bonus with the sheep isn’t the problem, it’s that it has no downsides. Most major, especially snowball Eco bonuses have a significant downside, while Gurjaras are, when played well, perfectly clean. So leave the bonus as it was, but place the Berries around the TC like Stragglers. Now the Gurjara player has to decide: Idling my TC a bit with inefficient early food income or eating one or two sheep first and sacrificing some later game snowball? The Berries under the TC is what is the big issue here, not the Gather rate.
Well I'm not sure if that's exactly what he meant, but that still makes sense, that ethiopians will afford xbow/bodkin arrow much easier than generic civ. So it doesn't make it better compared with before, but it makes their 100food/100gold bonus sometimes more important probably.But that wasn't his claim, and it's besides the point. I do agree that mayans, Chinese and britons need nerfs elsewhere but this patch seems more targeted at cav civs and new civs
I was actually surprised that they didn't nerf Shirvmasha cost or speed, it is really weird to keep unit have 1.6 basic speed (1.76 with bloodlines) as it is, it is the fastest unit in the game and so cheap and their basic attack not bad at all. They only nerf the dodge time which is not enough at all.Well I'm not sure if that's exactly what he meant, but that still makes sense, that ethiopians will afford xbow/bodkin arrow much easier than generic civ. So it doesn't make it better compared with before, but it makes their 100food/100gold bonus sometimes more important probably.
@Saeda I agree with most. I feel like due they don't even get pikemen, they kind of want to keep their camels bit OP. However I maybe missed or didn't see in pro play, but in my own games ~1750 elo I encountered few bit different plays with gurjaras which seemed quite difficult to deal with. So basically my gurjaras opponent went archers-> castle age into stables and siege. So basically dude gets with 10-12 archer to castle age, upgrades into xbow and adding some shrivamsha/camel depending on situation and some armored elephants or how they are called. with some defence, vills barely kill them, but you can't really switch into pikemen, due opponent has 12 xbow. mangonels doesnt do much against shrivamsha either, skirms is useless against shrivamsha and knights is also quite difficult, especially if you are a civ without bloodlines and their armored elephant eat tc, I honestly surprised Hoang not doing his "hoang" rush with gurjaras yet, maybe im just a noobie, but it felt super difficult to defend unless you are able to somehow sit behind walls, but very early castle age 10+ xbow with some shrivamsah+camels and armored elephants felt super strong, mainly due villagers doesnt work against them as good as against rams.
I kind of agree with shrivamshas training too fast, however maybe increasing their cost(can be on food) maybe would make it better, because as you said, their units are just great, so they maybe should just cost more, to be less effective. Also I think many still do not even use their UT yet, which is also amazing and very cheap. So would increase shrivamsha riders cost a bit, like 10 food and maybe a bit of chakram throwers, so those transitions are not as easy and with UT it wouldnt feel much anyway.
Drush/ 5 m@a into skirms into elephant archers. The 200w at feudal and castle up are nothing to sniff at and isn't fully figured out yet (can aid in forwards, trush, etc.) Can help facilitate easy comp transition, additional army, or booming. I think if they were given redemption they would be quite good, especially on closed maps. They are already pretty decent on water maps.After thinking about it a little bit, there's 2 things I don't understand about this patch:
A) what are dravidians supposed to play ? I seriously don't understand what they should be playing. Elephant archers? Infantry + skirms? idk. I just keep feeling they don't have a good unit to go for
Thanks for ruining archers, gurjaras, hindustanis, Sicilians and burgundiansMap Voting is now an in-game feature
Melee pathing feels a lot smoother again
- Crossbowman upgrade cost increased 125F 75g -> 175F 125G
- Arbalester upgrade cost increased 300F 300G -> 450F 400G
- Armored Elephants/Siege Elephants are now affected by Siege Engineers
- Elephant Archer cavalry archer armor changed from -7 to -4 (take less bonus damage from e.g. skirmishers)
- Monks now have +3/+3 armor
- Economy upgrade food discount changed from -50% -> -40%
- (Elite) Coustillier charge attack reduced by 5 from +25 -> +20, +30 -> +25
- (Elite) Coustillier charge time reduced from 40s -> 33s
- Now have access to Bombard Cannons
- Mounted units bonus damage decreased from 50% -> 40%
- Elite Shrivamsha upgrade changed from 800F 600G -> 850F 500G
- (Elite) Shrivamsha rider recharge rate increased from 15s -> 20s
- (Elite) Ghulam HP reduced by 10 from 65 -> 55, 75 -> 65
- lose access to Halberdier
- Bonus damage reduction decreased from -50% -> -33%