August PUP

[Hunyadi_]

Regarding archers, Daut brought up a good point in a recent stream, why are archers faster than infantry? All non-uu foot soldiers should move at the same speed.

Also why not just remove squires as a researchable tech? Archers don't have to research squires, so why do infantry?

By removing squires and making all non-uu foot units the same speed it would buff infantry and nerf archers. Kill 2 birds with one stone as they say.

 

[Progeusz]

why are archers faster than infantry?

Because the main role of archers is countering infantry. That's why they are a bit faster and have bonus damage against infantry.

However with the way game developed, people realized archers can do a lot more than that and when cavalry felt a bit weak, it received big upgrade in bloodlines... while infantry was abandoned for a long time and their niche role settled in as a norm in minds of all experienced players. Devs have been buffing infantry bit by bit in recent years but they're trying to not take drastic measures.

 

[vesnoimorskoi]

Because the main role of archers is countering infantry. That's why they are a bit faster and have bonus damage against infantry

Countering infantry is pretty much everyone's role

 

[Hunyadi_]

Because the main role of archers is countering infantry. That's why they are a bit faster and have bonus damage against infantry.

However with the way game developed, people realized archers can do a lot more than that and when cavalry felt a bit weak, it received big upgrade in bloodlines... while infantry was abandoned for a long time and their niche role settled in as a norm in minds of all experienced players. Devs have been buffing infantry bit by bit in recent years but they're trying to not take drastic measures.

Yeah well after 20 years of in-game research I think we can safely say that archers don't need extra foot speed.

Leveling foot speed would at least give infantry a chance to catch up and get in a hit or two before dying lol

 

[ltm]

I like all the nerfs, will be interesting how big the impact of the x-bow/arb upgrades is.

Bengali still looks very weak though, buffs probably won't help much

 

[Chainsaw]

Leveling foot speed would at least give infantry a chance to catch up and get in a hit or two before dying lol

It would also make drush/maa more viable, I think

 

[Russeljones]

Bengali monks should also receive 3 melee and 3 ranged dmg to complete the circle. Sad Bengalis.

 

[_PaternaAoE_]

I didn't say I want my all huge changes LOL. However, these changes are nothing, Burgundians will still strong as they are since those changes are meh, their eco still OP and their stables discount still great same for their UU, Hindus still have 0 weaknesses and they still super strong and Gurjaras still strong. Sicilians still broken and they should nerf their faster 100% castles and TCs build and their less bonus damage still strong same for their broken UTs (Hauberk and 1st crusade). No nerfs to Eagles food cost, no nerfs to China, no nerfs to Cumans, Franks, Huns, Britons, Mesos, Poles, Bohemians, Lithuans. Literally nothing will change.

Sounds sb is butthurt. About the changes u want, nerfing civs like bohemians cumans and lithuanians is rediculous - cumans got nerfed to oblivion and is a mid tier civ on most maps apart from arena. Bohemians are in a fine spot as they are really hard to play and their op monk rush got nerfed quite well. Lithuanians is the same case as cumans - nerfed to the groud.
Regarding the new civs - yes, the halb nerf for indians is a huge one since halbs are a really good counter to cavalry (they have camels, but when the gold runs out - they wont have an easy answer to cavalry spam, idk if my answer is sufficient but I honestly think its a good change ). With gurjaras I like the nerfs, but I do agree that the SR and bonus dmg should be nerfed. Bengalis and Dravidians will still be difficult to play but they are heading the right direction. Other than that im glad for the changes, especially the xbow nerf - finally the losers that pick mayans all the time will have a slightly harder time playing that broken civ.

 

[MAE_JO]

Sounds sb is butthurt. About the changes u want, nerfing civs like bohemians cumans and lithuanians is rediculous - cumans got nerfed to oblivion and is a mid tier civ on most maps apart from arena. Bohemians are in a fine spot as they are really hard to play and their op monk rush got nerfed quite well. Lithuanians is the same case as cumans - nerfed to the groud.
Regarding the new civs - yes, the halb nerf for indians is a huge one since halbs are a really good counter to cavalry (they have camels, but when the gold runs out - they wont have an easy answer to cavalry spam, idk if my answer is sufficient but I honestly think its a good change ). With gurjaras I like the nerfs, but I do agree that the SR and bonus dmg should be nerfed. Bengalis and Dravidians will still be difficult to play but they are heading the right direction. Other than that im glad for the changes, especially the xbow nerf - finally the losers that pick mayans all the time will have a slightly harder time playing that broken civ.

I don't know how you look to things, but actually now Mayans, Chinese and Ethiopians are even better with the xbow nerf not worse LOL. Also Gurjaras and Hindus nerf are laughable and won't change anything either, Hindus is that civ who literally have 0 weaknesses, they have everything they need, removing halbs will do nothing. Gurjaras nerf is weak too, and Burgundians nerf is not enough, and I am surprised how you find Cumans fine?! A civ have 2nd TC in feudal and at the same time cheaper military buildings with siege in feudal too. Before you should make a decision about either boomimg or not with Cumans but this is not the case anymore with the cheaper buildings, you can now boom and at the same time add military buildings and attack too which should never be. At least Cumans should lose their discount on archery ranges. Bohemians and Lithuanians are indeed strong civs no matter what you say, Bohemians eco is broken especially with fervor tech that make their vills like Ferrari, it gives their vills +15% more speed which is actually more speed than getting handcart with +5% more speed (since handcart gives you +10%) and way cheaper (140G) this is even regardless their mining bonus and cheaper blacksmith and university. AOE DE brought 11 new civs, literally 9 of them need nerfs (we can even add Hindus since they changed them a lot), the balance is way worse than ever before.

 

[_PaternaAoE_]

I don't know how you look to things, but actually now Mayans, Chinese and Ethiopians are even better with the xbow nerf not worse LOL. Also Gurjaras and Hindus nerf are laughable and won't change anything either, Hindus is that civ who literally have 0 weaknesses, they have everything they need, removing halbs will do nothing. Gurjaras nerf is weak too, and Burgundians nerf is not enough, and I am surprised how you find Cumans fine?! A civ have 2nd TC in feudal and at the same time cheaper military buildings with siege in feudal too. Before you should make a decision about either boomimg or not with Cumans but this is not the case anymore with the cheaper buildings, you can now boom and at the same time add military buildings and attack too which should never be. At least Cumans should lose their discount on archery ranges. Bohemians and Lithuanians are indeed strong civs no matter what you say, Bohemians eco is broken especially with fervor tech that make their vills like Ferrari, it gives their vills +15% more speed which is actually more speed than handcart with +5% more speed and way cheaper (140G) this is even regardless their mining bonus and cheaper blacksmith and university. AOE DE brought 11 new civs, literally 9 of them need nerfs (we can even add Hindus since they changed them a lot), the balance is way worse than ever before.

lmao? increasing xbow upgrade cost = buff :clownface:. I don't want a beginner's opinion to be forced upon me, you clearly don't understand the game properly.

 

[Zbyszek]

I would say they are already fine after attack move nerf

what do you mean by attack move nerf? Asking because yesterday I ran into some ***** who very successfully abused that bug against me. that was with melee unit tho. is it gone for ranged?

 

[amazing_knight]

I don't know how you look to things, but actually now Mayans, Chinese and Ethiopians are even better with the xbow nerf not worse LOL.

- Mayans, Chinese, Ethiopians -> Have good archers so likely to go for archers.
- Xbow cost goes up -> Tougher to get the xbow upgrade right on hitting castle age, as compared to earlier.
- Logic - They are better now, not worse.

Hmmmm makes sense. I don't know how anyone fails to see this absolutely perfect logic.

removing halbs will do nothing

Removing halbs will not remove halbs? Okay noted.

 

[_PaternaAoE_]

- Mayans, Chinese, Ethiopians -> Have good archers so likely to go for archers.
- Xbow cost goes up -> Tougher to get the xbow upgrade right on hitting castle age, as compared to earlier.
- Logic - They are better now, not worse.

Hmmmm makes sense. I don't know how anyone fails to see this absolutely perfect logic.

Removing halbs will not remove halbs? Okay noted.

thank you for your explanation, now i see it clearly, I apologize for being so uneducated.

 

[amazing_knight]

Bohemians eco is broken especially with fervor tech that make their vills like Ferrari, it gives their vills +15% more speed

So if I have to invest 175 wood and 140 gold in making my vills 15% faster (even when investing those resources in early castle age could mean I die because I'm not investing in army) - it's broken because they're now Ferraris at 15% but Berber vills which are 10% faster for free are not even Alfa Romeo?

 

[MAE_JO]

- Mayans, Chinese, Ethiopians -> Have good archers so likely to go for archers.
- Xbow cost goes up -> Tougher to get the xbow upgrade right on hitting castle age, as compared to earlier.
- Logic - They are better now, not worse.

Hmmmm makes sense. I don't know how anyone fails to see this absolutely perfect logic.

Removing halbs will not remove halbs? Okay noted.

Ethiopians get +100g, +100f each age, xbow upgrade get +50g/+50f, so it is like nothing to Ethiopians. Chinese already have 15% discount in castle age, Mayans already have great eco with archers discount, so what does all this mean? This mean those top 3 archers civs are more than fine and the generic civs will be worse. See how this make these 3 civs even better? This increased the gap between the top tier civs and the generic ones. I said many times before that xbow upgrade is too cheap and need to be more, however, if you let the strong civs as they are without nerfing them, then the general balance and the gap between the civs will be bigger.

It is like saying "hey guys! The bloodlines cost is cheap! We need to nerf it! Then they say: OMG! What a great idea! Yes!".

Meanwhile Franks have free bloodlines and China cheap dirt techs and Burgundians 50% discount.

What I wanted to say that you should take in conisderations the strong civs too, not make a general nerf to all civs without nerfing the strong ones.

 

[MAE_JO]

but Berber vills which are 10% faster for free are not even Alfa Romeo?

I said it before, Berbers too need a nerf anyway. Their stables discount or vills speed need to be nerfed. Maybe stables 10% castle, 15% imp instead of 15%, 20%. Their vills maybe should be +5% not 10%.

 

[_PaternaAoE_]

I said it before, Berbers too need a nerf anyway. Their stables discount or vills speed need to be nerfed. Maybe stables 10% castle, 15% imp instead of 15%, 20%. Their vills maybe should be +5% not 10%.

Yeah sure, make them go from A/B tier to C/D tier civ.

 

[Instinctz]

Yeah sure, make them go from A/B tier to C/D tier civ.

don't you know? equalizer knows better then the following.
Ladder and Tournament stats, Casters, Pros, and High Level Players, and past and present devs.

He knows better then others so much he's currently participating in ban evasion again.

OkBoomer123434

Age of Empires Franchise

forums.ageofempires.com

 

[_PaternaAoE_]

don't you know? equalizer knows better then the following.
Ladder and Tournament stats, Casters, Pros, and High Level Players, and past and present devs.

IQ over 9000

 

[MAE_JO]

don't you know? equalizer knows better then the following.
Ladder and Tournament stats, Casters, Pros, and High Level Players, and past and present devs.

He knows better then others so much he's currently participating in ban evasion again.

OkBoomer123434

Age of Empires Franchise

forums.ageofempires.com

What is this LOL. I left the forums long time ago and didn't come back at all. Aoezone feels much better 11

 

[Instinctz]

I left the forums long time ago and didn't come back at all

yeah. you mean you were banned from the forums a long time ago. and reddit. you didn't leave.
and anyone with an ounce of brain power can compare your posts there to your posts here and see you are in fact the same person.

 

[MAE_JO]

yeah. you mean you were banned from the forums a long time ago. and reddit. you didn't leave.
and anyone with an ounce of brain power can compare your posts there to your posts here and see you are in fact the same person.

My posts there?!

 

[Instinctz]

My posts there?!

so your claim is that someone saw your posts here, made a new account, and is just parroting your stuff over there? this despite the fact that literally no one agrees that the xbow nerf is a buff for ethiopians and others?

 

[MAE_JO]

so your claim is that someone saw your posts here, made a new account, and is just parroting your stuff over there? this despite the fact that literally no one agrees that the xbow nerf is a buff for ethiopians and others?

You are really obsessed man. There are tons of people who said the samething on all aoe groups, reddit, aoezone, forums, LOL. Chinese, Ethiopians and Mayans clearly got 0 effects which make them have better advantage over generic civs with their eco and discounts. If someone said this on reddit he will be me?! 11

 

[crazyyoco]

so your claim is that someone saw your posts here, made a new account, and is just parroting your stuff over there? this despite the fact that literally no one agrees that the xbow nerf is a buff for ethiopians and others?

It's not that it's a buff. It's more like that cost increase will hurt civs with weaker eco bonus more than civs with good eco like mayans, chinese, ...