Are you vaccinated against COVID-19?

[Tiekel]

Fact Check-List of ‘108 FIFA soccer players’ is not proof of a common link between COVID-19 vaccines and athlete deaths

Widespread claims that 108 FIFA soccer players have died in a six-month period in 2021 are not based in fact – nor are suggestions that the alleged deaths are linked to COVID-19 vaccines.

www.reuters.com

Reuters infested with people who drink children's blood confirmed

 

[StorM_Country]

This forum already reads like the main stream media and big tech. My post gets deleted for "misinformation" lol. Talk about censorship. Do realise this is a forum for sharing opinions and perspectives right? The only point I agree with that you made above is around the virus not being isolated in a lab, my bad, you're right, it has been. The rest of your post, well, it's various levels of aggressive attack. I was going to just leave it be, I consider arguing on the internet with people I don't know to be an awful waste of energy but I'll indulge you this once. I'm not here to try to convince anyone of my truth, just presenting the information I came across and what led me to my conclusions, that's all. Take the vaccine if you want, I don't really care either way.

First of all, natural immunity, let's look at that. If this entire pandemic was about health every bus stop, shop window, youtube advert would be plastered with "here is how to strengthen your immune system" and another beside it "this is what weakens your immune system" but nah, all you see is the signs about keeping "social" distance, coughing into your elbow etc etc. Piss poor from health authorities with billion dollar a year budgets.

I personally turned away from western medicine over a decade ago in favour of herbalism, shamanism, traditional chinese medicine and ayurvedic medicine and I've never been healthier. I'm actually getting to the root of my problems and finding proper healing. Western medicine deals with "symptoms" only, that's the entire language of allopathic medicine. It's either poison the body with pills or vaccines or cut out organs that should never be touched in such a way because the doctors haven't a ****in clue why they are not functioning, making big money from guesswork. Western medicine is big business and in the big business of western medicine, a healthy person is a customer lost. Get people entrained into their system of pills for their lifetime. You never, ever hear "root" being mentioned in terms of illness. If you did, we might actually get somewhere. The four other schools of thought are thousands of years old and still here. Western medicine in it's current form is what, a hundred? a little more? and it's floundering and in 2022 it's going to have a dramatic collapse as people realise by the end of 2022 that it's the vaccinated getting sick and dying.

You respond to natural immunity in such an obscure way, like natural immunity is something to be scoffed at. It's such an immature, conceited, arrogant response I had to laugh. I don't know what age you are but you're a classic western medicine hierophant, a combination of extremely arrogant and willfully ignorant, a dangerous combination and something that too many western doctors display.

I chose pfizer purposely because in my region of Europe it has the most uptake and I wanted to question, before the vaccine debate, whether the company you're trusting with experimenting on you, is trustworthy. Surely even someone in your position can see that.

I know nothing about Steve Kirsch. I was linked to the FDA video by someone else and considering they published it to their own youtube channel and what this man says aligns with the growing trends around the world, that's enough for me. I've no interest in what the media is saying about him in terms of CHQ not being effective or him spreading "misinformation" about covid. It's one side slinging **** at the other. All of that articles claims about him can be argued against.

Saying that someone COULD have died from covid if they didn't get the vaccine is speculation and impossible to conclude. The reality is, covid-19 had a survival rate of 99.997% among people who got it. 1 in 200? Laughable. Here in Ireland, according to the government released data at the end of 2020, less people died in the worst month (April) of 2020 than in the worst month of the 2017/2018 flu season (January). A bad year for the flu but still, doesn't look like a pandemic when you look at the public available data. Considering we've had at least two mutations of importance (Delta/Omicron), now the severity is very mild, although transmition is up, no doubt due to weakened immune systems.

Your final comment told me much of what I needed to know about you as a person. You want to be right. You made pure speculation about a bunch of doctors you know nothing about instead of watching the content with an open mind in a bid to learn something new or to see this from a different perspective. That and exactly that is why I don't bother arguing with people anymore. Arrogance and ignorance. If this was a face to face conversation I wouldn't have bothered going there with you. The only reason I'm replying is for the sake of the other people reading this and your gross mischaracterization of me. You stink of feigned moral highground, grow up kid.

 

[ponciliano]

This forum already reads like the main stream media and big tech. My post gets deleted for "misinformation" lol. Talk about censorship. Do realise this is a forum for sharing opinions and perspectives right? The only point I agree with that you made above is around the virus not being isolated in a lab, my bad, you're right, it has been. The rest of your post, well, it's various levels of aggressive attack. I was going to just leave it be, I consider arguing on the internet with people I don't know to be an awful waste of energy but I'll indulge you this once. I'm not here to try to convince anyone of my truth, just presenting the information I came across and what led me to my conclusions, that's all. Take the vaccine if you want, I don't really care either way.

First of all, natural immunity, let's look at that. If this entire pandemic was about health every bus stop, shop window, youtube advert would be plastered with "here is how to strengthen your immune system" and another beside it "this is what weakens your immune system" but nah, all you see is the signs about keeping "social" distance, coughing into your elbow etc etc. Piss poor from health authorities with billion dollar a year budgets.

I personally turned away from western medicine over a decade ago in favour of herbalism, shamanism, traditional chinese medicine and ayurvedic medicine and I've never been healthier. I'm actually getting to the root of my problems and finding proper healing. Western medicine deals with "symptoms" only, that's the entire language of allopathic medicine. It's either poison the body with pills or vaccines or cut out organs that should never be touched in such a way because the doctors haven't a ****in clue why they are not functioning, making big money from guesswork. Western medicine is big business and in the big business of western medicine, a healthy person is a customer lost. Get people entrained into their system of pills for their lifetime. You never, ever hear "root" being mentioned in terms of illness. If you did, we might actually get somewhere. The four other schools of thought are thousands of years old and still here. Western medicine in it's current form is what, a hundred? a little more? and it's floundering and in 2022 it's going to have a dramatic collapse as people realise by the end of 2022 that it's the vaccinated getting sick and dying.

You respond to natural immunity in such an obscure way, like natural immunity is something to be scoffed at. It's such an immature, conceited, arrogant response I had to laugh. I don't know what age you are but you're a classic western medicine hierophant, a combination of extremely arrogant and willfully ignorant, a dangerous combination and something that too many western doctors display.

I chose pfizer purposely because in my region of Europe it has the most uptake and I wanted to question, before the vaccine debate, whether the company you're trusting with experimenting on you, is trustworthy. Surely even someone in your position can see that.

I know nothing about Steve Kirsch. I was linked to the FDA video by someone else and considering they published it to their own youtube channel and what this man says aligns with the growing trends around the world, that's enough for me. I've no interest in what the media is saying about him in terms of CHQ not being effective or him spreading "misinformation" about covid. It's one side slinging **** at the other. All of that articles claims about him can be argued against.

Saying that someone COULD have died from covid if they didn't get the vaccine is speculation and impossible to conclude. The reality is, covid-19 had a survival rate of 99.997% among people who got it. 1 in 200? Laughable. Here in Ireland, according to the government released data at the end of 2020, less people died in the worst month (April) of 2020 than in the worst month of the 2017/2018 flu season (January). A bad year for the flu but still, doesn't look like a pandemic when you look at the public available data. Considering we've had at least two mutations of importance (Delta/Omicron), now the severity is very mild, although transmition is up, no doubt due to weakened immune systems.

Your final comment told me much of what I needed to know about you as a person. You want to be right. You made pure speculation about a bunch of doctors you know nothing about instead of watching the content with an open mind in a bid to learn something new or to see this from a different perspective. That and exactly that is why I don't bother arguing with people anymore. Arrogance and ignorance. If this was a face to face conversation I wouldn't have bothered going there with you. The only reason I'm replying is for the sake of the other people reading this and your gross mischaracterization of me. You stink of feigned moral highground, grow up kid.

This time you put no source at all in your claims. At least you're being more honest in your lies and bullshit discourse. Now I don't even care to read what you've written. Most of my claims were well-sourced, therefore better than any bullshit you come up.

Edit: btw, thanks for the administration for deleting such posts. Defending antivax is one thing. Spreading straight up lies and resorting to causing panic on people shouldn't be allowed, in the other hand.

 

[StorM_Country]

Fact Check-List of ‘108 FIFA soccer players’ is not proof of a common link between COVID-19 vaccines and athlete deaths

Widespread claims that 108 FIFA soccer players have died in a six-month period in 2021 are not based in fact – nor are suggestions that the alleged deaths are linked to COVID-19 vaccines.

www.reuters.com

Reuters infested with people who drink children's blood confirmed

Here is some conflict of interest information you might like regarding Big Pharma + Reuters, who are doing the "fact checking" for this pandemic. Another totally "trustworthy" organisation, doing the fact checking.

Conflict of Interest: Reuters ‘Fact Checks’ COVID-Related Social Media Posts, But Fails to Disclose Ties to Pfizer, World Economic Forum

Reuters is now in the business of “fact-checking” Facebook and Twitter posts about COVID vaccines — despite having ties to Pfizer, World Economic Forum and Trusted News Initiative.

childrenshealthdefense.org

 

I had an interesting discussion among friends that I would like to share with others.

It was basically about the topic of why one should no longer say conspiracy theorists, but conspiracy ideologists, because a theory basically implies that one could prove something if one had spent enough researching gaining knowledge and investing time. But anti-vax, chemtrails and the like are something completely different. These are self-contained, non-provable views that are often based on simple ignorance and a lot of faith (good example: @StorM_Country) while not containing much knowledge at all.

But why do these people believe so much in this bullshit and why is discourse with them often impossible or pointless?

Well, basically the whole thing is based on the fact that these people find themselves as "black sheep" in society. They are often outcasts in society (not only, of course). And due to the abundance of information in our time (Youtube and co.) these people can now also acquire "knowledge" from dubious sources. "Knowledge" from information that they themselves have never learned to check or to critically question their sources. Information that gives them answers and serves their under-complex world view. They can now hold this acquired "knowledge" up to society and say: "Hey, I know something now too and you all have no idea!

The psychological effect then includes a profound sense of well-being, because you are somebody again and all the other "sheep" just have to wake up.

The less you know, the more you think you have something completely figured out.
The more you know, the more you realise that you don't yet understand something completely.

That is why it is often so pointless to discuss with such people. They are not interested in questioning themselves and gaining more knowledge. They are only interested in telling others that they know more - because they have not been able to do so all their lives - and can now feel better.

 

[ponciliano]

I had an interesting discussion among friends that I would like to share with others.

It was basically about the topic of why one should no longer say conspiracy theorists, but conspiracy ideologists, because a theory basically implies that one could prove something if one had spent enough researching gaining knowledge and investing time. But anti-vax, chemtrails and the like are something completely different. These are self-contained, non-provable views that are often based on simple ignorance and a lot of faith (good example: @StorM_Country) while not containing much knowledge at all.

But why do these people believe so much in this bullshit and why is discourse with them often impossible or pointless?

Well, basically the whole thing is based on the fact that these people find themselves as "black sheep" in society. They are often outcasts in society (not only, of course). And due to the abundance of information in our time (Youtube and co.) these people can now also acquire "knowledge" from dubious sources. "Knowledge" from information that they themselves have never learned to check or to critically question their sources. Information that gives them answers and serves their under-complex world view. They can now hold this acquired "knowledge" up to society and say: "Hey, I know something now too and you all have no idea!

The psychological effect then includes a profound sense of well-being, because you are somebody again and all the other "sheep" just have to wake up.

The less you know, the more you think you have something completely figured out.
The more you know, the more you realise that you don't yet understand something completely.

That is why it is often so pointless to discuss with such people. They are not interested in questioning themselves and gaining more knowledge. They are only interested in telling others that they know more - because they have not been able to do so all their lives - and can now feel better.

That I agree completely. I never expected to convince that guy that he's wrong and should change his views. My tone makes that pretty clear. As I never expect to convince an holocaust denier, or a racist, etc. My only objective was to expose his misleading and straight up lying discourse, so that other people wouldn't fall for his traps that easily.

 

[Drunken_master]

You could argue that certainly, but there are plenty of scientific studies and correlations showing vaccines' efficacy in reducing deaths, transmissions, hospitalizations etc. So that argument is pretty debunked.

Pharma also got billions from selling hydroxichloroquine and ivermectin to the dumb/misinformed people. but still they didn't try to further back that up, because scientific proof of them being ineffective is too strong.

Reducing deaths - we can easily see deaths per million by country and notice that lowest stats are observed in africa and asia - regions who are least vaccinated
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_by_country

Reducing transmission - this is easily debunked since we are at new peak compared to last year without vaccines
https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/

Also its kinda sus we dont have oficial medication treatment for covid - i would imagine it would be more efective than to shoot 5 boosters to global population

 

[-R-]

I'll try not to come across as condescending because it's not my intention to alienate anyone right off the bat, but I believe your position is so far off to be irreconcilable to that of anyone else here. Still, there are a couple of points worth addressing here:

I personally turned away from western medicine over a decade ago in favour of herbalism, shamanism, traditional chinese medicine and ayurvedic medicine and I've never been healthier. I'm actually getting to the root of my problems and finding proper healing. Western medicine deals with "symptoms" only, that's the entire language of allopathic medicine. It's either poison the body with pills or vaccines or cut out organs that should never be touched in such a way because the doctors haven't a ****in clue why they are not functioning, making big money from guesswork. Western medicine is big business and in the big business of western medicine, a healthy person is a customer lost. Get people entrained into their system of pills for their lifetime. You never, ever hear "root" being mentioned in terms of illness. If you did, we might actually get somewhere. The four other schools of thought are thousands of years old and still here. Western medicine in it's current form is what, a hundred? a little more? and it's floundering and in 2022 it's going to have a dramatic collapse as people realise by the end of 2022 that it's the vaccinated getting sick and dying.

Yes, Ayurvedic medicine, traditional Chinese medicine, herbal medicine (free for Teutons!) and shamanism have been around for ages, while "Western" (I'd prefer the term scientific, but we'll leave that out for now) medicine is relatively new, at least in the modern sense. And yet life expectancy has improved manifold since the introduction of "Western" medicine. The answer is simple - most of the time it works, unlike the overwhelming majority of alternative therapies.

Furthermore, while there's no denying that a lot of companies are out to make money from medicine, to claim that such a reason alone is enough to state that it doesn't work is ludicrous. Furthermore, you'll find that all of those alternative therapies have long become a business as well, from cult-like "temples" to fully-fledged homeopathic pharmaceutical labs, and including the illegal traffic of animals and plants (and their parts) for traditional Chinese medicine, particularly, but not limited to, elephant tusks and rhino horns. And, most importantly, at the end of the day it doesn't quite work.

I know nothing about Steve Kirsch. I was linked to the FDA video by someone else and considering they published it to their own youtube channel and what this man says aligns with the growing trends around the world, that's enough for me. I've no interest in what the media is saying about him in terms of CHQ not being effective or him spreading "misinformation" about covid. It's one side slinging **** at the other. All of that articles claims about him can be argued against.

Steve Kirsch is a Silicon Valley entrepreneur. He knows **** all about medicine. He also has a massive conflict of interest having poured hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions, into the research of treatments for COVID (which would of course become unnecessary if people got vaccinated and either did not get sick or got only a mild form of the disease). If you care about people or companies taking a certain stance because they stand to win (or lose) money/prestige, then you should also care about holding those who agree with you to the same standard of scrutiny, which, by your own admission, you're not doing - you're straight up saying you don't even bother checking the guys background because you share the same views.

The reality is, covid-19 had a survival rate of 99.997% among people who got it. 1 in 200? Laughable.

This is quite simply not true and I would like to know where you get such data from. Your sources in general seem to be quite iffy - I'm not only referring to this Kitsch fellow, or to your [baseless] claims about the virus not being isolated, but also about this organisation you quoted in your first post, "America's Frontline Doctors". This is not the prestigious medical association you seem to believe it is, but a rag-tag crew of right wing fruitcakes counting among their number such luminaries as Stella Immanuel - a 'doctor' who believes that some women have gynaecological issues due to having dreams of a sexual nature featuring succubi and incubi, being impregnated by demoniac sperm. She's also into reptilian conspiracies, btw. Also, these "Frontline Doctors" made a killing providing online medical consultations ever since launching their organisation at the start of the pandemic. Once again, if you're gonna have certain standards for those who disagree with you, then you should definitely hold those who are "on your side" to the same standards, if not higher.

Anyway, as I said, I don't expect to change your mind. I believe that to be impossible. But perhaps this may make you think twice about some of the **** you've been reading.

 

[ponciliano]

Reducing deaths - we can easily see deaths per million by country and notice that lowest stats are observed in africa and asia - regions who are least vaccinated
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_by_country

Population hasn't been fully vaccinated since day 1 pandemic. Only approximately a year later.

Most COVID deaths have been before fully vaccination - USA had 600k+ deaths, Brazil had 300k+ deaths before mass vaccines, and so on. And death/tramission COVID curve have been significantly decreasing in each of those countries after they started mass vaccinating (and would reduce even more if everybody took the vaccines).

Also there's the subnotification problem - obviously USA and Europe have the infraestructure to count each death to COVID, while Africa and poor Asia countries don't.

Also dictatorships tend to want to hide COVID death numbers. And they are more prevalent in Africa and Asia.

So, to sum it up: each country should be analyzed separately. Each of them have their reasons for their own COVID statistics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_by_country

Reducing transmission - this is easily debunked since we are at new peak compared to last year without vaccines
https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/

Because there's a new variant, and a new booster is being developed for it. Virus mutates, **** happens. Even more when there's a significant portion of the population rejecting to take any basic sanitary measures.

Also its kinda sus we dont have oficial medication treatment for covid - i would imagine it would be more efective than to shoot 5 boosters to global population

Yeah just like Santa gives gift to every single child in the world, and the easter egg you eat is put off by an easter bunny. That's the same level of cognition as this claim you made.

There's no official medication to virus diseases in general, because they mutate everytime. There's no medication to cure Flu, AIDS, Ebola etc. And anybody with basic scholarship should know that.

Even though now apparently a medication is being developed in Israel, that seems to be getting good results. I'm optimistic for that, but they still have to get it fully developed, that can still fail when subjected to deeper scientific analysis.

 

Reducing deaths - we can easily see deaths per million by country and notice that lowest stats are observed in africa and asia - regions who are least vaccinated
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_by_country

The numbers of deaths and infections are in this sense unreliable that the actual numbers are probably much higher as we see in India as often the dead are not tested or didn't get any diagnosis and treatment at all. So no, what you say is a fallacy.

Reducing transmission - this is easily debunked since we are at new peak compared to last year without vaccines
https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/

The virus mutated and adapted - meaning spreading faster and circumventing the immune system of already infected people. You are not immune to the Coronavirus after an infection. In fact you can be ill one month with it and again the next few months.

Also its kinda sus we dont have oficial medication treatment for covid - i would imagine it would be more efective than to shoot 5 boosters to global population

"The drug - Paxlovid - is intended for use soon after symptoms develop in people at high risk of severe disease.
It comes a day after the UK medicines regulator approved a similar treatment from Merck Sharp and Dohme (MSD).
Pfizer says it stopped trials early as the initial results were so positive.
The UK has already ordered 250,000 courses of the new Pfizer treatment, which has not yet been approved, along with another 480,000 courses of MSD's molnupiravir pill.
Health and Social Care Secretary Sajid Javid called the results "incredible", and said the UK's medicines regulator would now assess its safety and effectiveness.
"If approved, this could be another significant weapon in our armoury to fight the virus alongside our vaccines and other treatments," he said.
The Pfizer drug, known as a protease inhibitor, is designed to block an enzyme the virus needs in order to multiply. When taken alongside a low dose of another antiviral pill called ritonavir, it stays in the body for longer."

Covid: Pfizer says antiviral pill 89% effective in high-risk cases

The company stopped clinical trials early because initial results for the drug were so positive.

www.bbc.com

 

[bird_person]

This forum already reads like the main stream media and big tech. My post gets deleted for "misinformation" lol. Talk about censorship. Do realise this is a forum for sharing opinions and perspectives right? The only point I agree with that you made above is around the virus not being isolated in a lab, my bad, you're right, it has been. The rest of your post, well, it's various levels of aggressive attack. I was going to just leave it be, I consider arguing on the internet with people I don't know to be an awful waste of energy but I'll indulge you this once. I'm not here to try to convince anyone of my truth, just presenting the information I came across and what led me to my conclusions, that's all. Take the vaccine if you want, I don't really care either way.

First of all, natural immunity, let's look at that. If this entire pandemic was about health every bus stop, shop window, youtube advert would be plastered with "here is how to strengthen your immune system" and another beside it "this is what weakens your immune system" but nah, all you see is the signs about keeping "social" distance, coughing into your elbow etc etc. Piss poor from health authorities with billion dollar a year budgets.

I personally turned away from western medicine over a decade ago in favour of herbalism, shamanism, traditional chinese medicine and ayurvedic medicine and I've never been healthier. I'm actually getting to the root of my problems and finding proper healing. Western medicine deals with "symptoms" only, that's the entire language of allopathic medicine. It's either poison the body with pills or vaccines or cut out organs that should never be touched in such a way because the doctors haven't a ****in clue why they are not functioning, making big money from guesswork. Western medicine is big business and in the big business of western medicine, a healthy person is a customer lost. Get people entrained into their system of pills for their lifetime. You never, ever hear "root" being mentioned in terms of illness. If you did, we might actually get somewhere. The four other schools of thought are thousands of years old and still here. Western medicine in it's current form is what, a hundred? a little more? and it's floundering and in 2022 it's going to have a dramatic collapse as people realise by the end of 2022 that it's the vaccinated getting sick and dying.

You respond to natural immunity in such an obscure way, like natural immunity is something to be scoffed at. It's such an immature, conceited, arrogant response I had to laugh. I don't know what age you are but you're a classic western medicine hierophant, a combination of extremely arrogant and willfully ignorant, a dangerous combination and something that too many western doctors display.

I chose pfizer purposely because in my region of Europe it has the most uptake and I wanted to question, before the vaccine debate, whether the company you're trusting with experimenting on you, is trustworthy. Surely even someone in your position can see that.

I know nothing about Steve Kirsch. I was linked to the FDA video by someone else and considering they published it to their own youtube channel and what this man says aligns with the growing trends around the world, that's enough for me. I've no interest in what the media is saying about him in terms of CHQ not being effective or him spreading "misinformation" about covid. It's one side slinging **** at the other. All of that articles claims about him can be argued against.

Saying that someone COULD have died from covid if they didn't get the vaccine is speculation and impossible to conclude. The reality is, covid-19 had a survival rate of 99.997% among people who got it. 1 in 200? Laughable. Here in Ireland, according to the government released data at the end of 2020, less people died in the worst month (April) of 2020 than in the worst month of the 2017/2018 flu season (January). A bad year for the flu but still, doesn't look like a pandemic when you look at the public available data. Considering we've had at least two mutations of importance (Delta/Omicron), now the severity is very mild, although transmition is up, no doubt due to weakened immune systems.

Your final comment told me much of what I needed to know about you as a person. You want to be right. You made pure speculation about a bunch of doctors you know nothing about instead of watching the content with an open mind in a bid to learn something new or to see this from a different perspective. That and exactly that is why I don't bother arguing with people anymore. Arrogance and ignorance. If this was a face to face conversation I wouldn't have bothered going there with you. The only reason I'm replying is for the sake of the other people reading this and your gross mischaracterization of me. You stink of feigned moral highground, grow up kid.

First of all: I would partially agree with you that Big Pharma is something to discuss and definetly has negative aspects. But it isn't black and white like you make it.
I am currently studying medicine in Germany in my 8th semester and i can safely say the western medicine cares about the roots of desieases. Doctors cut peoples organs because it is necessary sometimes. I think it is good to be cautious with drugs and care about treatment options but sometimes chemical drugs and surgeries are a damn nice thing to have. Sorrry, but if you treat some serious cancer with just herbals and shamanism you might risk your life, there are enough studies that check how treatments work and which is the best.
Natural immunity is a brialliant thing but sometimes it doesn't work. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger does not apply to serious diseases. And for Covid there is enough science to
I would sense a strong distrust on your part with whats going on and i just wanna say, that's okay. I think you are wrong in 95% of your points and if you'd like I'd be happy to provide some sources.

I hope for the sake of everybody that this **** is over as soon as possible cabecause the worst this whole pandemic does is to the relationships to people imo. Ppl are scared to die and isolate themselves and ppl are scared to live in dictatorships and go down bad roads where i don't see it easy coming back from. In germany aroud 11 Million adults are not vaccinated. Surely some have medical reasons but a lot just dont want to Politics have missed so clearly to get t the people and their doubts and fears no matter how irrational they might be. I believe that the vaccines work and it makes sense for everybody to get it but i think if we want to change people's minds we chould hear their side and fears, doubt, believes and else. No matter how wrong we think it is.

 

[StorM_Country]

You do realise I don't check peoples backgrounds for a living right? You do know the amount of work that would take right? The American frontline doctors was the first one I came across citing the same information, here are more.

https://www.rtnews.co.il/?view=article&id=49&catid=22 - the original source of the article. Read the content. Here it is in a UK article. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/s...ardiac-arrests-heart-related-issues-2021.html

If your perspective of TCM is about exotic animal parts then you clearly know **** all. When you have experience in those schools of thought, real life experience and you can speak from it, we can have a proper conversation. I'm not going to bother educating you on it, again I'm just sharing my perspective of what has worked for me in life and how I've found proper healing, I'm not trying to win a debate. I'm already regretting having wrote my first post.

I purposely don't use scientific in regards to western medicine because all of the other systems of healing I mentioned are also scientific. Don't forget, all of the poisonous pills that big pharma pedal with a long list of side effects come from the same plants that herbalism use in their raw form. They just don't add a bunch of chemicals and patent it to make huge money, that's the difference, as an example.

The survival rate of 99.997% was from the CDC in the US in 2020. Looking at the statistics from the Irish perspective it's somewhere around there too. The deaths in Ireland in 2020 were comparable to the previous five years I checked. There was no significant change.

I shared the FDA video because it's the FDA and if you listen to what he's saying hes citing public available data and studies.

 

 

[ponciliano]

surgeries are a damn nice thing to have.

What are you saying? Did you know surgeons CUT PEOPLE ALIVE?? Do you see how they bleed during surgeries? Having their internal organs cut and sometimes entire tissues removed? The entire pain they endure suffer to the point they have to take anesthesia until they faint off before surgeries? How weak patients are post-surgery?

DON'T SUPPORT SURGERIES FOLKS, IT'S ALL A DEVIL'S CONSPIRACY THAT PUT PEOPLE'S LIVES AT RISK EVERY YEAR! SEE HOW MANY BILLIONS OF DOLLARS SURGERY MARKET GENERATES EVERY YEAR!

Spoiler

Hope I've replicated antivax' process of thought well enough, lmao.

 

if we want to change people's minds we chould hear their side and fears, doubt, believes and else. No matter how wrong we think it is.

You can't change a person's mind. The person needs to invest itself a whole lot of energy into it. What you can do is just to spark something in them. But the road they need to go alone. Also I'm not a psychotherapist, I do not need to listen to people's fears, doubts, believes, or what else. If people use a platform to spread lies and propaganda it's absolutely necessary to debunk their stuff or take away the platform. As said above, most anti-vax people don't discuss to actually gain more knowledge or something. They discuss to show others they also know something - even if it's just from a random youtube video of a false and/or biased doctor.

Also: There is a difference in questioning things and trying to understand the whole issue and get to a deeper understanding of a problem AND outright spread misinformation and propaganda with falsehoods.

The first you can work with - the second is something you work against.

 

[Fall]

My pet conspiracy theory is that non-Western forces are targeting the vaccination issue online because they are unable to design RNA vaccines with the efficacy that the West has done, and the fact that we now possess potent vaccines is a strong economic advantage (whereas in China they are still stuck with the zero-COVID strategy, and need to damage the internal circulation of their economy every time a cluster is detected, as well making it extremely difficult to travel into the country, even for their own citizens).

Genuine anti-vaxxers (rather than bots and other operatives) are just useful idiots.

 

[ponciliano]

My pet conspiracy theory is that non-Western forces are targeting the vaccination issue online because they are unable to design RNA vaccines with the efficacy that the West has done, and the fact that we now possess potent vaccines is a strong economic advantage (whereas in China they are still stuck with the zero-COVID strategy, and need to damage the internal circulation of their economy every time a cluster is detected, as well making it extremely difficult to travel into the country, even for their own citizens).

Genuine anti-vaxxers (rather than bots and other operatives) are just useful idiots.

It's a thought that might make sense, but there's no source at all that backs you up I guess.

Imo China's policy is exactly what you said: ZERO COVID. Not COVID spreading and mutating everywhere forcing people into taking new boosts and companies having to develop new vaccines nonstop. And that makes sense, since it allows them to keep relatively stable economic development instead of facing a new dump each new wave that occurs each 6 months around here.

And the fact that they're a dictatorship means they can enforce whatever rule they want and people just follow. While here we have to deal with antivax "muh freedom".

I'm not supporting fascism in any way. But well, in this very specific case it's an advantage they got.

 

[Philippe le Bon]

wakka please

wakka is a racist

Wakka doesn’t like the Al Bhed.Music:“A Fleeting Dream / Someday the Dream will End”Composed by: Nobuo UematsuArranged by: Masashi HamauzuNew Arrangement by:...

www.youtube.com

 

[bird_person]

If people use a platform to spread lies and propaganda it's absolutely necessary to debunk their stuff or take away the platform. As said above, most anti-vax people don't discuss to actually gain more knowledge or something. They discuss to show others they also know something - even if it's just from a random youtube video of a false and/or biased doctor.

Agreed. But in a society where we have goals to achieve as a whole we need to make sure we have the people on board. and that just works through listening and opening up in my opinion. Getting the majority vaccinated is responsebility of the politics and the society. So i think one should listen not because they are being paid but because it can affect others and yourself for the better.
We have about 71% fully vaccinated people in germany. Many of the unvaccinated have no interest at all to get the jab. You can force them like it will happen (which i don't think is good for a siciety) or you could have done a more sustainable way of actually listening more to the fears and doubts and questions. If people are being heard and feeling themseves and their needs seen and appreciated you can start conversations way better. Now it is kinda too late for that.

 

[Xellos]

Spanish flu pandemic also killed tens of millions of people, until it went away naturally by herd immunity (people without natural immunity died, so by natural selection only those with natural immunity survived so the virus stopped spreading over time).

Immunity doesn't work like pregnancy, there are many states other than "has natural immunity" and "doesn't have natural immunity".

Immune system's kinda smart. It learns to identify bad stuff based on similarity (identical antigens) to what it's previously seen, then updates its memory to include new antigens when infection clears. New viruses are kinda similar to old ones (and never completely identical) so they can be fought using immunity acquired from old ones.

Exposure to older viruses helps fight newer ones of the same type since your immune memory gets shaken up and refreshed. That's why we're not seeing over 90% mortality rate with corona. Most of the time that similarity's very close, then there's rare epidemics where especially immune systems that got weakened by age, chronic illness/bad nutrition/stress, etc. **** up and the person dies (or is left with severe damage caused also by the bad immune reaction).

There's also a particular way in which this memory develops in children. It's an interesting topic to read about.

Of course, this memory doesn't work the same in everyone. Sometimes it's too weak, sometimes too excessive and leads to attacking own body in all kinds of autoimmune diseases.

So the people that died weren't those without natural immunity. It was those whose bodies weren't able to use pre-existing natural immunity to fight off infection. Everyone else who got exposed to the virus(!) acquired new, better natural immunity with specificity to that virus to various extents.

The virus stopped spreading because it got replaced by new variants, either mutated from the original Spanish flu or from other flus going around. Traces of it might (or might not) still be around but since it became less infectious simply by immune adaptation, it got kicked out by new ones that were, at the moment, more infectious, whether deadlier or not. That's kinda what we're seeing now too. The cycle goes on.

pic

Putting UFOs, generally seen as comparable with flat earth, as more grounded in reality than the well-known scandal of Iran Contra. Perfect example of graphic design as carrier for subtle misinformation. If you want to post pics then stick to smug anime girls, at least there's no such danger involved.

 

We have about 71% fully vaccinated people in germany. Many of the unvaccinated have no interest at all to get the jab. You can force them like it will happen (which i don't think is good for a siciety) or you could have done a more sustainable way of actually listening more to the fears and doubts and questions. If people are being heard and feeling themseves and their needs seen and appreciated you can start conversations way better. Now it is kinda too late for that.

Coming as well from Germany I obviously know what you mean. But I need to say that this is not really how I believe from my point of view it works. Let's compare it with a group of people where the overlap to anti-vaxxers is quite huge: the alt-right, namely AfD and other groups of people against refugees.

It's the same as said above, the people are locked-in to an ideology. Listening to them you don't get the fears or needs - you get to listen straight out to their ideology and how they make the complex world work in an undercomplex way for themselves. A psychotherapy might help in these cases, so someone can really get to the buttom of their problems, but I don't think that there is coming out anything constructive listening to an anti-vaxxer or xenophobic alt-right dude. While you might feel better and think that you have done something good in giving them an ear and listened to their stuff - it most likely won't change anything long term and they will follow up their ways of living and gathering dubious information.

 

[bird_person]

Coming as well from Germany I obviously know what you mean. But I need to say that this is not really how I believe from my point of view it works. Let's compare it with a group of people where the overlap to anti-vaxxers is quite huge: the alt-right, namely AfD and other groups of people against refugees.

I get the AfD comparison. But it's not just ideologists who aren't vaccinated. It's also lots of cautios people who are scared. I wouldn't put effort in discussing with some Reichsbürger but there are enough average Joes who just don't trust this stuff. and who is tlistening and haring their doubts? strong ideologists, so they walk next to them. And tbh i can understand where some of them are coming from. Somebody who doesn't care too much about medicine and science is feeling sus about this. but people calling them names if they share their doubts that happens so quickly at social media. I wouldn't try to have a conversation with people judging me so quickly because of an standpoint about vaccines. I'd rather find comfort in these uncertain scary times. Humans can be so simple. and as some are radical and lost in their ideologies i think many are just unsure and scared and society is doing a crap job trying to get to them.

 

[Fall]

It's a thought that might make sense, but there's no source at all that backs you up I guess.

Imo China's policy is exactly what you said: ZERO COVID. Not COVID spreading and mutating everywhere forcing people into taking new boosts and companies having to develop new vaccines nonstop. And that makes sense, since it allows them to keep relatively stable economic development instead of facing a new dump each new wave that occurs each 6 months around here.

And the fact that they're a dictatorship means they can enforce whatever rule they want and people just follow. While here we have to deal with antivax "muh freedom".

I'm not supporting fascism in any way. But well, in this very specific case it's an advantage they got.

But China imports the mutated variants from the rest of the world, unless they want to completely lock down all borders, which is basically impossible. So they get outbreaks regardless. Ask someone who actually lives in China what it's like when they enforce these lockdowns - ask someone whose business or property is located in one of their scenic areas for example, or dependent on internal tourism/transport in some other way. I think if you speak to some actual Chinese people, you'll find many have lost a lot because of the zero-COVID policy, rather than it being an economic advantage.

 

[CR7outof10]

Meanwhile in India... this man should not be prosecuted, but instead let loose among anti-vaxxers

 

[Umdeuter]

Saying that someone COULD have died from covid if they didn't get the vaccine is speculation and impossible to conclude. The reality is, covid-19 had a survival rate of 99.997% among people who got it. 1 in 200? Laughable. Here in Ireland, according to the government released data at the end of 2020, less people died in the worst month (April) of 2020 than in the worst month of the 2017/2018 flu season (January). A bad year for the flu but still, doesn't look like a pandemic when you look at the public available data. Considering we've had at least two mutations of importance (Delta/Omicron), now the severity is very mild, although transmition is up, no doubt due to weakened immune systems.

What were your math grades in school?