An open criticism and discussion about Nili´s tournament

[Mettius]

Hi everyone,

I´m writing this post to talk and openly discuss Nili´s announcement of N4C.

For those who missed the announcement Nili confirmed a 100K AoE4 Tournament taking place in Berlin in the month of March. 8 top AoE4 players will partecipate and it will be hosted by Nili_AoE.

Let´s start with the name: N4C. It has been already explained why this choice, arguing that calling it NAC4 would be the wrong choice and N4C doesn´t have a real meaning. Problem is that N4C is really not unique compare to NAC4 , the similarities are just too many and even a kid can understand that N4C can be translate to -Nili "Age of empires 4" cup- for instance. The problem with this can already be seen , instead of a unique and new brand for AoE4 tournaments , here we are recalling a AoE2 tourney and making look like a replacement to it.

Second i want to address why i believe AoE4 has been favored to AoE2. AoE4 is well known to still be in a stage where it needs many patches before it gives a competitive and serious experience . We haven´t seen such high prize money in AoE2 for 20 years, beside RB wololo 4 last year. and now there are expectation to be hyped for a Tournament of only 8 people with 100K put into a game that clearly don´t deserve such high prizes yet. I can see how AoE4 can´t really stands by itself and the "managers" at high level are doing all what they can to promote a campaign of marketing and "pull the wool over everyone´s eyes" decisions to utterly make it look such a great game, where the reality is that it is an unfinished job, and many pros already acknowledged that. i wouldn´t wonder if Nili received pressure from MS for example in making such a decision , clearly they want to promote AoE4 above all , and i can criticise that at this stage the game doesn´t deserve 100K tournament yet.

Nili said last year NAC4 would've received 100k as well if not for Covid. Now that AoE4 is out i´m not that sure anymore , he justifies this by saying last year there were restrictions (And i agree it was not the moment to do such tourney) but then why isn´t he doing it in summer when the restrictions are more relaxed? Why not doing this year with only vaccinated players ? Why not organize in the same way as N4C but for AoE2? I think these are legitimate questions and i believe covid restriction are still in place in Germany but for AoE4 tournament they clearly can be managed , not the same effort could have been put for NAC4 ?

My last thought about all this situation: A Tournament so big, made it for only 8 people seems very much an elitarian and arbitrary promotion of a game that still has a lot to prove. The marketing of AoE4 is clearly completely detached from the quality of his gameplay and this is a path that can be seen across many... many... many other games where the promotion of the game completely obscure the quality of the game itself serving the only purpose to hype the potential player base and make them play instead of giving them a complete and quantitative experience.

Finally, i don´t know who is the most responsible for this decision, if Nili more or MS more or someone else. what i can say is that it´s really sad to see something like this happening and as they can for sure do something like this i also can freely discuss it.

Let me know what you think and feel free to constructive criticize me if you disagree
Thank you all

 

[PipesMble]

You are late to the party my friend.

Nili announces NC4 - $100K AoE4 LAN

Today Nili announced that NAC4 is now N4C, and will be a $100K prizepool AoE4 LAN. DeMuslim and Viper automatically invited for winning an S-Tier AoE4 tourney, and 6 will qualify.

www.aoezone.net

 

[King_Marv]

Posted with internet explorer

 

[DaisyChain]

I don't think the fair points exposed here can be compared with most of what is in the other thread, which devolved in an irrelevant "I HATE AOE4 / I HATE AOE4 HATERS" disccusion as usual.

I'd say, personally, I share some of the issues exposed here, even if I don't know where I could point fingers and who is responsible for what.

Mostly, I feel like it's too early to have a 100k$ tournament for AoE4, and too early to have a LAN (whether it's AoE2 or AoE4).

All AoE2 vs AoE4 discussions aside, I think the event would make a lot more sense in Summer, after a few patches, when the competitive scene of AoE4 is more stable, and once there are hopefully less COVID restrictions. I understand the frustration and the fact we have to start doing things again at some point, but honestly right now feels like the worst time to do something in Europe.

 

[RainmakerPL]

I think we need more topics about this.

 

[Mettius]

I don't think the fair points exposed here can be compared with most of what is in the other thread, which devolved in an irrelevant "I HATE AOE4 / I HATE AOE4 HATERS" disccusion as usual.

I'd say, personally, I share some of the issues exposed here, even if I don't know where I could point fingers and who is responsible for what.

Mostly, I feel like it's too early to have a 100k$ tournament for AoE4, and too early to have a LAN (whether it's AoE2 or AoE4).

All AoE2 vs AoE4 discussions aside, I think the event would make a lot more sense in Summer, after a few patches, when the competitive scene of AoE4 is more stable, and once there are hopefully less COVID restrictions. I understand the frustration and the fact we have to start doing things again at some point, but honestly right now feels like the worst time to do something in Europe.

Agree, clearly the earliness of this tournament must be address, only 20k tournament have been made so far , and now there is this big jump which ofc raise many questions

 

[oozkan]

The only explanation of NAC4 worths 100K was based on closed stream plus presence of Memb and T90/Dave in NAC2 and NAC3. They left their streams for a week and brought their viewers and consolidated everyone in one channel. Now without that 2 streamers, I don't think NAC4 or N4C worth 100K, doesn't matter AOE2 or AOE4.

There is huge favoritism towards Nili when it is NAC since he is owner, but actually Memb and T90 made those tournaments bigger.

 

[Baron Icey Harkonnen]

I don't think the fair points exposed here can be compared with most of what is in the other thread, which devolved in an irrelevant "I HATE AOE4 / I HATE AOE4 HATERS" disccusion as usual.

Another post out of left field from daisychain

chalk this one up to "The grand saga of uninformed random takes about people making life changing decisions."

 

[Elvaenor]

At least get your facts right man, the 100k prizepool was for RBW5, not 4, and there was WiC as well in 2014/2015 with 110k prizepool. You're speaking about 1v1 tournaments only.

 

[lecracheursagacite]

At least get your facts right man, the 100k prizepool was for RBW5, not 4, and there was WiC as well in 2014/2015 with 110k prizepool. You're speaking about 1v1 tournaments only.

This feels like nitpicking as neither error really affects his point.

 

[Elvaenor]

This feels like nitpicking as neither error really affects his point.

It was nitpicking, correct. It's the only response I can give as I believe everything (from both sides of the argument) has been treated extensively. However, if you make a long post criticising a person at least come across like you know what you're talking about. Posts seem less credible if statements are false, in my humble opinion.

 

[lecracheursagacite]

It was nitpicking, correct. It's the only response I can give as I believe everything (from both sides of the argument) has been treated extensively. However, if you make a long post criticising a person at least come across like you know what you're talking about. Posts seem less credible if statements are false, in my humble opinion.

I don't think getting small details wrong necessarily suggests someone does not know what they are talking about. It maybe suggests they could have been more thorough with checking details before posting and maybe on a thread like this they should have. I agree that posts are less credible when things are wrong but to me that scales with the degree of being wrong.

 

[Elvaenor]

I don't think getting small details wrong necessarily suggests someone does not know what they are talking about. It maybe suggests they could have been more thorough with checking details before posting and maybe on a thread like this they should have. I agree that posts are less credible when things are wrong but to me that scales with the degree of being wrong.

I agree with you. But especially with topics like this where you criticize a person, I think it's very important to come across like you do know what you're talking about to prevent your post looking like just another post to smack talk Nili because they don't like aoe4 (like this post feels to me).

 

[Mettius]

Posted with internet explorer

11 , just found the time now to do it to be honest

 

[Mettius]

At least get your facts right man, the 100k prizepool was for RBW5, not 4, and there was WiC as well in 2014/2015 with 110k prizepool. You're speaking about 1v1 tournaments only.

1 true RBW5 my bad,

I agree with you. But especially with topics like this where you criticize a person, I think it's very important to come across like you do know what you're talking about to prevent your post looking like just another post to smack talk Nili because they don't like aoe4 (like this post feels to me).

i see your point. This kind of arguments with this aggression kill the discussions though, don´t they ?

 

[Elvaenor]

i see your point. This kind of arguments with this aggression kill the discussions though, don´t they ?

Sorry if I came off as aggressive, I didn't actually mean to. But as I said, I'm not looking to contribute to the discussion itself because I think all things have been said. I always try to stay away from participating in discussions about topics like this!

 

[lecracheursagacite]

Sorry if I came off as aggressive, I didn't actually mean to. But as I said, I'm not looking to contribute to the discussion itself because I think all things have been said. I always try to stay away from participating in discussions about topics like this!

That famed Dutch neutrality

 

[Elvaenor]

That famed Dutch neutrality

Haha, I guess you could say that! :D

 

[Please_dont_choose_goths!]

AoE4 is a meme gane and should be ignored.

 

[Tendo]

They left their streams for a week and brought their viewers and consolidated everyone in one channel. Now without that 2 streamers, I don't think NAC4 or N4C worth 100K, doesn't matter AOE2 or AOE4.

There is huge favoritism towards Nili when it is NAC since he is owner, but actually Memb and T90 made those tournaments bigger.

Disagreed, T90 was only present for some days at NAC and he's not someone who brings his viewers with him.
Membs Stream wasn't that big at that time in terms of average Viewer-Count, obv. both made NAC better, but it's not like they came together with thousands of viewers over to Nilis channel.

Btw. with Grubby (600 hrs AoE4 streamed with ~4k viewers on average) Dave and Aussie_Drongo he has big Streamers this time aswell.
Also the big thing this time is the Tournament being open casting, something NAC was lacking in the past (maybe neccesary to get those Casters who knows) which will also help to increase the Viewer-Numbers.