An Idea to make Spanish a viable civ

[zShades]

An Idea to make Spanish a viable civ and not designed for one trick ponies.
Improvements: Eco upgrades cost wood only (we can argue for exceptions, wheel + handcart)
Nerfs: Conqs get a significant attack delay (really similar to Kipchaks nerf)

Unleash your ideas

 

[Loris]

Age of empires 2 is dead.

 

[Shed_]

give feudal towers 2000 hp

 

[Freezing_Point]

Give them crossbowman, because sucking should not be a civ's identity. They still wouldn't be amazing given the lack of an eco bonus but at least they would have reasonable options at most stages of the game.

 

[Lord_patito]

Well.... Since ask, i'm giving my pleb opinion 11

Contrary to popular opinion, I like the fact the lack xbow. Yeah, it's a huge upgrade, but again Bulgarians lack it as well and they are a good civ, so i think the Spanish buff should reinforce what they already have. In that context, I'll propose an idea I've thought of some time ago :

Units cost 10% less food.

Every unit spanish can go for cost food (except siege, obviously). So this will buff all their options without make then OP
It even is historically accurate, for those that care about that

 

[green eggs]

I would give the Spanish a complete overhaul, including getting rid of conqs and donqs.

Currently the civ’s identity is bound up with the Conquista, which was an early modern event, not medieval. I understand why this was done – when AoC was released the devs wanted the Spanish to tie in with the new American civs. But times have changed and that approach looks increasingly unnecessary and problematic – we don’t need to justify the inclusion of Maya and Aztecs by framing them through European contact and genocide, especially when it doesn’t suit the game’s intended time period. It’s also weird playing the El Cid campaign with sixteenth century gunpowder units.

Spanish should be rebuilt according to the original plan, which was a medieval civ whose UU is the genitour. Genitour should be moved to Spanish and buffed.

 

[Freezing_Point]

I can't see the justification for overhauling Spanish to narrow down the game's historical time frame while Huns are still at the other end literally reprising Rise of Rome scenarios with their campaign.

 

[Memeluke]

Give spanish stonewalls in dark age

 

[hellhammer]

I ve read one suggestion at the forums that might be good I guess?

• Berry Bushes contain more food

 

[USC_kiky]

They have one of the most competed tech trees. I don't think it necessary to give them x-bow....

 

[Paint]

Apply there blacksmith bonus to other unit upgrades like bloodlines and supplies and give them a small but relevant water bonus.

I also like the idea of there towers getting a bit better maybe restore them back to the HD power level.

 

[Helichaos]

Apply there blacksmith bonus to other unit upgrades like bloodlines and supplies and give them a small but relevant water bonus.

I also like the idea of there towers getting a bit better maybe restore them back to the HD power level.

Agreed. Bulgarians are the currently the non-xbow civ done right, a few small bonuses that help them enough to be relevant but not make them op.

 

[GmanStreams]

So you're saying siege tower castle drop inside the enemies walls on arena doesnt make spanish relevant??!?!

 

[Paint]

Apply there blacksmith bonus to other unit upgrades like bloodlines and supplies and give them a small but relevant water bonus.

Actually this could be the same thing just give them a gold discount on some or all dock technology.

I would probably excluded unit "age up" upgrades like light cav -> hussar and longswords -> 2 hands.

 

[Hadeo17]

I guess most comments consider this debate from an Arabia-Runestones perspective, in which Spanish don't shine. Just bare in mind than in Nomad-like maps, Spanish are dominant (and they are decent in closed maps) so any eco buff (or discount on units) would make them even stronger on these types of maps.

This doesn't solve the issue that their gameplay can be very repetitive and conq dependent but this is a different issue. Not all civs need to be designed for Arabia, Spanish are relevant on other maps. I would agree on finding a way of making more options viable for Spanish but maybe not necessarily a direct eco/discount buff ?

 

[HongeyKong]

Not all civs need to be designed for Arabia

How dare you

 

[lecracheursagacite]

I would give the Spanish a complete overhaul, including getting rid of conqs and donqs.

Currently the civ’s identity is bound up with the Conquista, which was an early modern event, not medieval. I understand why this was done – when AoC was released the devs wanted the Spanish to tie in with the new American civs. But times have changed and that approach looks increasingly unnecessary and problematic – we don’t need to justify the inclusion of Maya and Aztecs by framing them through European contact and genocide, especially when it doesn’t suit the game’s intended time period. It’s also weird playing the El Cid campaign with sixteenth century gunpowder units.

Spanish should be rebuilt according to the original plan, which was a medieval civ whose UU is the genitour. Genitour should be moved to Spanish and buffed.

Well said.

I can't see the justification for overhauling Spanish to narrow down the game's historical time frame while Huns are still at the other end literally reprising Rise of Rome scenarios with their campaign.

As I always say, Conquerors was the first bad AoE2 expansion.

 

[Tocaraca]

Apply there blacksmith bonus to other unit upgrades like bloodlines and supplies and give them a small but relevant water bonus.

this is exactly what I was going to suggest. It sounds wild but I think "all military techs cost no gold" would be a great fit for Spanish (and I don't think it'd break them). Would make their m@a rush slightly above generic, would let them get Bloodlines in feudal without having to mine gold (great for scout wars), and would be huge for Elite Skirmisher, Ballistics, not to mention Halberdier, Hussar, Paladin, Onager etc.

 

[HongeyKong]

this is exactly what I was going to suggest. It sounds wild but I think "all military techs cost no gold" would be a great fit for Spanish (and I don't think it'd break them). Would make their m@a rush slightly above generic, would let them get Bloodlines in feudal without having to mine gold (great for scout wars), and would be huge for Elite Skirmisher, Ballistics, not to mention Halberdier, Hussar, Paladin, Onager etc.

That sounds a REALLY big buff

 

[_The_Deep_One_]

if the combo caslte(drop) built in 2 seconds - conqs - mangonels got nerfed (is one of the most broken and stupid things of the game), then as far as I'm concerned, they can start the game directly in Imperial Age, will be completely ok.

 

[amazing_knight]

It sounds wild but I think "all military techs cost no gold" would be a great fit for Spanish (and I don't think it'd break them).

So Paladin upgrade for 0 gold?

 

[LeoMontero]

they are not bad and are really good in TG specially in 3-3 and 4-4. this game is complex, and complet, we cant think all civs by 1-1 arabia

 

[Freezing_Point]

they are not bad and are really good in TG specially in 3-3 and 4-4. this game is complex, and complet, we cant think all civs by 1-1 arabia

People have been saying that for years, and yet the game hasn't been destroyed by changes that made Saracens, Teutons, Koreans and Turks at least respectable on 1v1 Arabia, so I don't think that's a justifiable argument anymore.

 

[Akos04]

An Idea to make Spanish a viable civ and not designed for one trick ponies.
Improvements: Eco upgrades cost wood only (we can argue for exceptions, wheel + handcart)
Nerfs: Conqs get a significant attack delay (really similar to Kipchaks nerf)

Unleash your ideas

This is a copy of the Burgundian bonus, but at this point who cares? I mean we have 3 civs with extra pierce armor on light cavalry.

 

[Zbyszek]

Fix Projectiles and they are immediatly top 10