I joined this thread to talk about 1v1 alt+f4, even if you think it's not a problem or it hardly happens, there are a lot of posts here or in another forums of ppl complaining explicity about 1v1 alt+f4. I agree is worse for TG's, which I could say it's mostly for 4v4's tho.Some things that don't make sense at all or just incorrect, and some fair arguments from you.
1. Alt+F4 hardly happens in 1v1 so why would we be talking about 1v1 ELO?
2. AFAIK, 1v1 ELO DOES matter, at least much more than TG. I personally care about it (I really want to reach 2k.. very close), often streamers will have "road to xxk", and I believe it is also used as seeding for tournaments.
3. You saying "TG is irrelevant" because of inflation, it can STILL be relevant even if there's ELO/MMR inflation. Just look at other games. It's irrelevant right now because of other reasons that I've mentioned before, one of the biggest being alt+f4.
4. Maps changing game play A LOT = fair. I guess this is why there's people who are VERY determined to play one map and one map only. My other suggestion was having a separate ELO (closed map/open map, hybrid, water).
5. Improving ELO is not meaning that a player is improving their skills? what? I feel that my skills are MUCH better right now that I'm 1900~ than when I was 1600~1800..
6. All the arguments you put are very weird. You are saying WHY TG elo don't matter and giving me all the reasons. Some I agree, some are just plain incorrect. But these reasons ARE the problem. TG ELO SHOULD matter. You telling me all those reasons should be things as devs and us communities should be working towards to fix.
7. Yes most important thing about video games to have fun. If FUN is the ONLY thing you care about, then you can go lobby and play. I personally do that when I play with my girlfriend from time to time. Arena, UU only, Arena and trash only (if my opponents are noobs) etc. There are times I want to play competitive in ranked and times I want to play JUST for fun. There is another option for people who are just wanting to have fun.
I personally have MORE fun feeling myself improve and I bet a lot of people do feel the same way here. I'm not talking about studying for an exam you know.. I love the process of studying the game (builds/decision making etc) and this in a way is having fun for me on top of trapping enemy's scout 11
8. So to avoid alt+f4, I shouldn't que for 4v4? instead of fixing the problem, you are asking the player who is effected by it to leave doing what he wants to do?
9. When you que with favourite marked and bans, you are agreeing to the system. Alt+F4ers are cheating the system out of selfishness to wanting to play ONE SINGLE MAP. There is another option. GO TO LOBBY. If there was no way of playing the "I PLAY ONE MAP AND ONE MAP ONLY" system, I guess there is no other way than alt+f4ing your way into it, BUT WE HAVE LOBBY.
I'll just summaries it simply as a person who WON'T alt+f4. I like playing Arabia so I favourite it. I don't like playing Arena/Black Forest so I ban them. I que up for a game which means I AGREE with the system where there is a good chance I will get Arabia and 0 chance of getting Arena/Black Forest. From there, if I alt+f4: 1. I'm cheating the system because of my selfishness to ONLY wanting to play 1 map, 2. I'm making 7 other people remake party, re-que etc. If you think alt+f4ing is okay, you are selfish. Problem I'm seeing from a lot of people here is that some people are justifying themselves alt+f4ing it's quite pathetic.
I'll give you another metaphor, playing this system is living by the law and alt+f4ing is breaking the law. Yes there will be laws you don't agree with, but you are in the system and there SHOULD be consequences if you break them. You can say there are exemptions when it comes to the consequences but in our game's case we are NOT forced to play ranked. We choose to. If we choose to, respect others who chose to as well and follow the system by NOT alt+f4ing (and please punish the ones who do and wastes other people's time because they think their time is more valuable). If not, there is another system: LOBBY.
1. Yes it happens and it is a problem for SOME ppl in this thread, if you ban arabia and arena and favourite a water map you will end with a lot of alt+f4 matches (you will be surprised the amount of ppl who let water maps unbanned just because they think the other guy is going to ban it already)
And I understand why do ppl alt+f4 in 1v1, at this point I want to do it myself after I got 12 games in a row acropolis/gold rush (and when I got water maps my rivals dodged), I couldnt play Arena once in a full week which is the map I have picked as favourite, how is that fair? I could have "fixed" that just doing a few alt+f4 and wait a little bit more, and lobby is not an option because I want to play a balanced game, and when I tried it was worse experience. And I don't mind playing arabia for example but I dont want to play it 9 out of 10 games either. Also the map pools are no sense, sometimes there is no nomad, sometimes no water maps, and sometimes 5 arabia clones, it is never balanced which make things worse.
2. Yes, ELO has a point in 1v1, and it's to find a balanced match against similar skilled oponent. I agree it's cool to have a higher number and climb, (tournament seeding is already for a limited number of players anyway). But if we exclude top players of the game ELO does not really reflect the overall skill in every map, as we already said there are a lot of specialist in "X" map and they know if they had to play against "Y" specialst maps in their map they would drop ELO points.
3. I am not the only one who thinks it's kinda irrelevant, even if you change my mind you still have a lot of people (including top players) who just dont care about it because how broken the system is.
4. Fair enought. I think with unlimited bans ELO could stay the way it is.
5. You are right, however I think number is not that important for me and a lot of ppl think the same because we are mostly 1/2 maps specialists and unless pro players if we play in maps we are not used we will struggle against someone who knows what to do with the same points. You told me you ban arena, wouldn't you think if you had arena unbanned you would have at least slightly lower ELO?
6. I think I gave solid arguments, you can disagree with them and you can think diferent, thats up to you. I agree TG ELO should matter, and dont confuse things, that's what everyone would like (or at least a lot of guys who thinks like me) but we do think the system is just too wrong and doesn't incentivize us, top players dont even care about it aswell. You just focus too much in the players, I think it could be better to point at the devs and tell them to improve something where they failed at.
7. But why can't we ask for having fun at the same time we have a balanced match against an even oponent?
8 and 9. Your last metaphor is good, I'll take it, however could be with a grain of salt because laws are not always good and changed a lot during humanity history. Anyway, let's say this "law" is totally right and there is people who is breaking it without punishment, let me tell you as guy who lives in 3rd world, if you know there is a place where they break rules, you just don't go there or otherwise you will be in a no mands land. I know it sounds bad, and I can understand your frustration because you really want to play 4v4, but unfortunately thats how human works. You won't get anything asking people to not be selfish, we can take examples of another things on life aswell. Instead you should be asking devs to change the system which clearly failed anyway.
So no, I am not asking you to leave 4v4 queue, however I am afraid you won't get the guys who alt+f4 to leave either. I KNOW there is lobby but let me explain how I think ppl that alt+f4 solo in 4v4 work, they are going to get more fun and balanced games even if they need to do a couple of alt+f4 and ruin your experience than actually tryng to fill a lobby that could take ages to do it and that most likely will be unbalanced with unfair teams or a lot of newbie players. The only way to fix this is on the DEVS hands, and looks like they don't care or don't have the answer. And if you think giving punishments of elo loss could help, some ppl here already gave solid arguments that this could make experience even worse for users like you.
You say you never alt+f4, however if there was a map pool that even if you had arena/black forest banned, you couldn't avoid to get lot of times in a row maps like amazon tunnel, fortress or hideout, would you alt+f4 or would you play them even if you hate to play that kind of maps?
Again, I joined the thread to talk about 1v1 (and I think I gave solid points why it's actually bad). Most of your arguments are about TG's. I didnt quite talk about TG's in my first post and I don't play TG's solo, I only do premade 2v2 or 3v3 with my friends who are barely new at the game and we already did reach 2K, so elo means nothing to me there, yes matches got a bit harder but sometimes I check the 1v1 elo of some of the higher TG elo we did face and they were barely 800 meanwhile in the road to 2k we did face far higher 1v1 elos than that. I could say the experience for me is kinda good, we find games in less than 10 minutes, usually in the maps we want (we almost never alt+4 and we barely face it against aswell) and games are sometimes even sometimes unbalanced, but overall can't complain (well I can actually because the tons of bugs we had and have) I just told you to leave 4v4 for 2v2 because you could actually get a better experience but you are free to do whatever you want ofc. However what we really need is a rework for ranked system because it clearly failed and could be improved.