AOE-IV Allegations of Targeted Harassment Raised for Competitive Age of Empires IV players.

[Adico]

Hello folks,

On November 28th, 2021, I was sent an anonymous message alleging players currently competing in Age of Empires IV and formerly Project Celeste, Age of Empires Online revival project, had been bullying and harassing another person. Upon speaking further, this person alleged that two players in particular, and a group, in general, had been targeting that person for harassment and had scammed them once over a period spanning 2017 to 2019.

Before I go into any further detail, I want to emphasize that as soon as the allegations were made and potential evidence turned over, I contacted an authoritative figure in the scene to make them aware of the situation. Whether that will turn into its own investigation is unknown to me and made unclear in their statements to me following the reporting of the allegations.

I wish to publish this to allow others in the competitive scene to see what is presented, come to their own conclusions, and determine if any actions are necessary. I’ve tried to be as thorough as possible with my limited time and resources. As far as I think I can feasibly take this investigation into the allegations.

Here is the complete article.​

 

[MyRegalTip]

Wow, this really came off as some personal drama or some low-level internet trolling until I saw those screenshots of that discord chat, that's extremely disappointing to read.

 

[Adico]

I'm wondering why did you keep the identity of the alleged victim a secret but not the identity of the alleged agressors?

Surely you have to consider the possibility that the alleged victim could be lying or simply not telling the whole truth?

By revealing only the identity of the agressors this whole piece sounds like you are siding with the "victim" while at the same time claiming you can't verify all the allegations.

For three reasons:

• When I wrote the article, neither ZertoN nor Adne wanted to provide any statements or materials, meaning I only had one side of the story and whatever I could investigate on my own.
• I do not know if the person providing me with the information is the victim or trying to pass as them. As such, I rather not show any information that could lead to identifying the victim.
• The victim, at this time, is a private individual for what could gather, beyond the allegations Adne raised in his post-release statement, there is nothing for me to go on to justify showing their identity at this time, though that can change in the future.

I've been in contact with other news outlets and editors for this very reason, to make sure I am following ethical journalism guidelines on the publication of this piece.

 

[i_no_english]

Edit: nvm

 

[Adico]

I think the nickname of 'John' is in the 3rd last screenshot?

Obviously won't confirm nor deny it, but it has now been blurred to be in line with the no thrid party mention policy of the article. Thanks for catching that.

 

[Rayne]

Didn’t completely read everything but all I can say is jeez. Considering streamers getting swatted (xqc daily so he moved back to Canada?), I’d never try and mess with people over the internet/say super harsh things. Never know who you’re going to run into and people seem to just come after you these days. And there’s so much information that sticks on the internet which makes it worse.

 

Is there a reason you posted it only here but not on Reddit? The AoE4 community you might want to reach is much more active on Reddit?

 

[Adico]

Is there a reason you posted it only here but not on Reddit? The AoE4 community you might want to reach is much more active on Reddit?

I am battling with that question. Posting to AoEzone has already been a pretty big stress point for me. The last thing I want is to be seen as a clout chaser for investigating allegations. So, for the time being, I'll withhold posting it to larger, more generalized, spaces. Maybe someone else will, maybe I will at a later time.

For now, I am only trying to reach people who are heavily involved in AoE as an esports community and who may want to be aware of the allegations. If others feel this merits a wider public presence, I leave it up to them to share it, for now.

 

[Baron Icey Harkonnen]

Sorry that your feelings are hurt. I will be your friend

probably the most detailed flame post I have ever seen

 

[Chainsaw]

Did John mention why he contacted you in the first place? I understand your uncertainty in this matter, but it seems a very, very delicate situation that might easily turn into a mud fight.

 

[Adico]

Did John mention why he contacted you in the first place? I understand your uncertainty in this matter, but it seems a very, very delicate situation that might easily turn into a mud fight.

I describe myself (through Twitter, discord, forums, Reddit, etc.) as an independent writer and journalist specializing in Age of Empires IV esports. I figured they wanted to reach someone who might be able to investigate it.

As to their goals, I did ask them, their main wish is for the emojis that use their face to be removed and for Adne to pay back the $100 John alleges they gave him. The first is impossible to do, unfortunately, and the second is entirely a legal dispute between them.

 

[Tiekel]

I haven't read everything and don't want to involve myself with the drama, but it might be interesting to note that the orange dutch flag used by that discord group has a strong connotation with patriotism and the alt-right

 

[Chainsaw]

I describe myself (through Twitter, discord, forums, Reddit, etc.) as an independent writer and journalist specializing in Age of Empires IV esports. I figured they wanted to reach someone who might be able to investigate it.

As to their goals, I did ask them, their main wish is for the emojis that use their face to be removed and for Adne to pay back the $100 John alleges they gave him. The first is impossible to do, unfortunately, and the second is entirely a legal dispute between them.

I understand; with this in mind, do you think posting this online furthers those goals? I don't mean to antagonize you or insinuate you are wrong to post this, but I can't make up my mind as to whether this is the correct course of action.

You did get a statement once you posted the article, so maybe that is enough reason to have written it in the first place?

 

[Adico]

I understand; with this in mind, do you think posting this online furthers those goals? I don't mean to antagonize you or insinuate you are wrong to post this, but I can't make up my mind as to whether this is the correct course of action.

You did get a statement once you posted the article, so maybe that is enough reason to have written it in the first place?

The way I see it and how I feel after speaking with other people from the media. It is better if these allegations are in the public and the evidence is clearly presented after everything that could be corroborated was. The other option is for John to appear at another time with them and the conversation truly devolving into a "he said, she said" fight that goes nowhere and quickly dilutes both sides.

By having a central article that attempts to look at the allegations, the holes in it, and the accusations, and the truths in it, at least the discussion won't go into wild speculation just by random people popping in with theories or ideas. I've already explored as much of it as I could.

In the future, a potential Team or TO can look at the article, along with any updates within it, and do what they want with it. If anyone in a position to do anything about it wants to act, I want them to make that determination, not me. I shouldn't be both a journalist and a judge.

 

[sozey_]

I haven't read everything and don't want to involve myself with the drama, but it might be interesting to note that the orange dutch flag used by that discord group has a strong connotation with patriotism and the alt-right

Other subtle hints I spotted are the Hitler emoji and the Nazi flag.

 

[Adico]

Small update, John sent over a statement of his own after Adne's.

 

[Giuseppe551]

If I understand correctly these are...AoE Online/4 players? That no one has ever heard of? Having a personal disagreement on discord? Who are probably 20 yrs old?

The number of people in the entire world who care about this is exactly three (the three involved) plus you apparently. Go watch KOTD.

 

[OctavianAoe]

First of all its Horrible, but i think this is more an aoe2 than aoe4 forum. so like before said most of the interest on this topic will be on reddit aoe4 thread.

 

[BalancedCoustillier]

First of all its Horrible, but i think this is more an aoe2 than aoe4 forum.

It honestly shouldn't be, despite what the old guard is saying.

 

[Tempires]

I find weird that this "john" went on to contact Adne's University. I fail to see how it can be anything else than to cause harm to adne. It's like answering bullying with bullying back.

 

[The_Philos]

On one side we have literal Nazis, who are very open about it seemingly, and on the other side we have someone who contacts universities of his bullies to get them stop bullying? Additionally he gave 100$ to get a discord server deleted? This is just in any way so ridiculous and even worse that you publish this as "news" about the AoE IV E-sport scene. This will result in nothing, just another he-said she-said with miserable people on both sides.
Thanks for letting me know, but I won't be interested in reading anything else written by you.
On a side note: Not quite sure, but it might be illegal to publish personal messages from other people in Germany. Similar to that you are not allowed to record them without their consent or knowledge. Can't tell for Netherlands, but since it's part of the EU, they probably have some similar laws to protect privacy. So it might be in your own interest to not get too involved with this, legally speaking.

 

[Manu]

On a side note: Not quite sure, but it might be illegal to publish personal messages from other people in Germany. Similar to that you are not allowed to record them without their consent or knowledge. Can't tell for Netherlands, but since it's part of the EU, they probably have some similar laws to protect privacy.

If you post something on a somewhat public group, or stream it somewhat publicly then it is perfectly legal.

 

[The_Philos]

If you post something on a somewhat public group, or stream it somewhat publicly then it is perfectly legal.

As I said, I'm not sure, but I wouldn't call a private discord group as public. At least you don't post in discord groups with the intention that everything that you write can be the next day publicly available for everyone. At least in Germany you would have a good case against this 'article' on Adico's page to get taken down and maybe more. The screenshots not only show discord posts, but also some which seem from private conversations with 'John'. And Adico did receive it by 'John' and decided to publish it, which makes it even worse in legal terms. Would still be up for a judge to decide.
However not really my point. If you want to get somewhat taken serious as a game journalist you stay away from themes like this as far as you can. It's kind of obvious that something is seriously wrong with this 'John' and that he's using Adico's work for his own goals. There is no intention in getting anything resolved, but to smear his 'bullies', pretty clear from the provided screenshots that discredit them.
Not going to defend the Nazi propaganda, it's obvious that there is something seriously wrong with them aswell.

 

[Adico]

If you want to get somewhat taken serious as a game journalist you stay away from themes like this as far as you can

I respect your opinion overall, but I will very much disagree with this statement. Not speaking up about allegations of harassment, not taking them seriously, and worrying about how people will perceive my work for doing it is precisely how the people who do those things remain unchallenged.

At the end of the day, people can and have so far argued about the importance of the allegations, and that is fair, that is perfectly in line with my goals. But I would hope that the idea of speaking up about allegations in the first place is not something that would somehow devalue my, or any others', career.

PS: I know it's not a big deal, but I am an esports journalist. I have more in common with a Yankee's beat writer than with an IGN reviewer. I talk about competitors and their games, not just about games.

 

[The_Philos]

I respect your opinion overall, but I will very much disagree with this statement. Not speaking up about allegations of harassment, not taking them seriously, and worrying about how people will perceive my work for doing it is precisely how the people who do those things remain unchallenged.

To make myself more clear: I'm not arguing about calling out someone, when he did something wrong, if it can be proven. You have evidence, which seemingly is trustworthy (even though you admit it can be manufactured). However in my opinion the approach of publishing everything without checking with the other side first, is really wrong and puts you on the same level as trashy news sites that publish anything as long as it generates clicks.
You had a very one-sided story by the 'victim', who obviously puts everything up to support his claim as the 'victim'. You claimed that you want to investigate, but why not publish this story after you investigated and talked to both sides? And maybe ask before you publish any private messages? Well, obviously because the 'alleged perpetrator' wouldn't have agreed on it, but at least this would have been the bare minimum effort before publishing anything.
I'm just saying that no side will paint you the full picture and now it seems that there is dirt on both sides. Can't really believe that you still think 'John' is the victim that he claims to be. The truth probably lies in the middle.
I'm critising your, in my eyes, poor judgement of posting this and trusting 'John' blindly to tell the truth about the whole situation.

Edit:
And to make myself even more clear: I'm not defending anyone or anything, because the evidence against these guys is kind of pressing. So you are probably right in that situation, but 'John' has his part in it.
My point is, if you ever hear about allegations from someone you know nothing about, I would at least check with the other side or talk to other people involved, instead of publishing 'evidence' that could very well be forged and/or taken out of context. Posting wrong allegations can really hurt one's reputation and damage it for good.