Aftermath takes issue with Tournament Rule Enforcement (-$300) | MembTV's BOA3

[Progeusz]

Yeah i don't expect a simple comment about 7 years ago to be 100% correct but the general idea of not being overly reliant on specific player should be pretty close.
Yes, T90 cast a lot of Viper games but his channel has a lot more of non-Viper games and there were some long breaks between Viper games.

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While the most popular uploads are community games, meme strats and world cup series.

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[Progeusz]

aaa how do i make the images hidden i thought spoiler command would do it

ok, solved it, had to edit bbcode from ispoiler to spoiler why does it even default to ispoiler
or a mod did it at the same time as i was struggling, thank you kind person!

 

[Hunyadi_]

At the end of the day I think we all agree we need a standardized rulebook for events especially as it relates to violating tournament responsibilities, expectations and what the penalties are; monetary and otherwise.

Considering that was sorely lacking in BOA, a warning to MBL should have sufficed. A warning with carry-over consequences meaning if he received another warning in a future tournament then it would result in a monetary fine. 3% at first and then 5% and then 10% and so on for each subsequent rule breaking.

But a $300 penalty out of the blue without a warning for breaking rules that are vague at best, is like getting arrested on the street for a brand new law that the cops literally just came up with on the spot. It's just not fair.

And I'm no MBL apologist. I'm on the record criticizing his behaviour including on AOEZone. I know the guy is a bit of a loose cannon. But he's a talented player and he's a good guy at heart. I think a carry-over warning would have been enough to send the intended message.

 

[vince]

regardless of all the finger pointing, and claims of whos more or less important, in the end its a symbiotic relationship. for maximum success, both sides must work together to be reasonable and strike some form of unity.

while we dont know what all happens behind closed doors, id say that happens far more often than not, based on how many fun and entertaining tournaments have been held, and the fact that they just seem to continue to improve in terms of quality and competition. overall, the good far outweighs the bad. this seems to be more of a bump in the road than anything. unfortunately some people here simply seem more interested in making mountains out of molehills or taking sides.

 

[Bourne2Die]

I see a lot of people asking for professionalism: players of tournament organizers, tournament organizers of players, players of admins, viewers of players, players of admins etc.

Back in the days when players were protected and could do what ever they want we waited for players to show up for tournament games for hours. It is a positive that this is a thing of the past. But I am very sure, that players would still do that if there were no penalties for that.

That leads to my next point: in a professional environment you often get a 2nd chance, but you will barely get that without financial consequences. If you ****ed up the first time you either have to deliver replacement for free or will get payed less for your first delivery. But you still have the chance to convince on a 2nd try. Translate that to aoe: Warnings are not a thing. Players agreed to the rules. If they ignore them (especially after having ignored an admin warning) there is no warning, there has to be a penalty. And that penalty increases up to disqualification if the same mistake will be repeated.

It is as easy as that: if you ask for professionalism, act professional yourself.

 

[Shakal]

From RMS Cup 2 Discord:

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While admins should obviously judge all rule breaks separately (and especially shouldn't look at things that happen in different tournaments), so this shouldn't in any way affect decisions made by BOA2 admins, it just again shows to community discussing in this thread that MbL's unprofessional behavior is quite frequent

 

[_MbL_]

Im not trying to be unprofesional or disrespectful. Outside AoE I have a real life, full time job, and full busy schedules with work. I often work overtime from 8 in the morning to 7-8 in the evening. In rms i just completely forgot to send the recs after the game and its fine I deserve that 3%.

Hate me as much as you want, but I have never treated anyone that is kind or normal in a bad way, I only get mad at trolls which there are many of here. And after this post, ill start to work on not getting triggered by the people that are out there seeking my response.

People seem to think I dont have respect for admins, but I do. Sometimes I just ask for a little bit of understanding. I try my best to show up on time, schedule and all that and its not my intentional to ruin touraments or viewer experience.

Have any of you even noticed ive done something wrong? What we got penalty for is so small that noone even cared. And im sorry to my team and viewerd i had to leave before the interview.

 

[Chainsaw]

And I'm no MBL apologist. I'm on the record criticizing his behaviour including on AOEZone. I know the guy is a bit of a loose cannon. But he's a talented player and he's a good guy at heart. I think a carry-over warning would have been enough to send the intended message.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but can't this be said about all the parties in this situation? I am no Chrazini apologist, but he said a similar event happened earlier in the tournament with MBL. I venture to say if the admins were lenient with this, then the teams who were penalized would have a case against the admins preferring the top teams.

Mbl said he had to leave after the game -> admin says no
Mbl leaves after the game without discussing with admin -> admin gives penalty
Mbl gets penalised -> says he could've stayed after the game

No situation is ever black and white and Chrazini has stated that communication could've been better on his part. I still understand if MBL and his team feels the decision was not fair, but at the same time you are putting the admin in a difficult position.

 

[-R-]

People seem to think I dont have respect for admins, but I do. Sometimes I just ask for a little bit of understanding. I try my best to show up on time, schedule and all that and its not my intentional to ruin touraments or viewer experience.

Have any of you even noticed ive done something wrong?

While I can agree that this particular situation (i.e. the interview) can be a bit of a grey area, this is just plain bizarre. Didn't you go fishing when you were supposed to be playing a showmatch vs ACCM promoting RMS Cup?

 

[Modri]

Im not trying to be unprofesional or disrespectful. Outside AoE I have a real life, full time job, and full busy schedules with work. I often work overtime from 8 in the morning to 7-8 in the evening. In rms i just completely forgot to send the recs after the game and its fine I deserve that 3%.

Hate me as much as you want, but I have never treated anyone that is kind or normal in a bad way, I only get mad at trolls which there are many of here. And after this post, ill start to work on not getting triggered by the people that are out there seeking my response.

People seem to think I dont have respect for admins, but I do. Sometimes I just ask for a little bit of understanding. I try my best to show up on time, schedule and all that and its not my intentional to ruin touraments or viewer experience.

Have any of you even noticed ive done something wrong? What we got penalty for is so small that noone even cared. And im sorry to my team and viewerd i had to leave before the interview.

In Rage Forest you ignored everybody's reminders and pleas, didn't bother showing up on draft day to draft your own team, then didn't show up for 2 of the games either, bashed your teammates on stream who played without their captain and was rude to Villiams after he informed you that you cannot participate in RF3 because of these actions, Villiams being one of the most diplomatic and friendly people in this community. You have no respect for anybody and that was just one of many displays of your arrogance and immaturity over the years.

Regarding the actual topic: I believe the fine is justified but the money should be spread among the rest of the teams.
I would certainly halt and ease up the growing demands that streamers have towards the players, I guess we need some union-type of protection as the game keeps growing. But I would also punish repeated offenders, such as guys with 20+ admin losses on DE. Those I'd ban from all major tournaments for at least a year.

Also another request to give AoEZone users the ability to see the topic even though it's opened by an ignored user. I can't be bothered to scroll through the miles of self-serving wordplay of OP but I am interested in this incident.

 

[_MbL_]

In Rage Forest you ignored everybody's reminders and pleas, didn't bother showing up on draft day to draft your own team, then didn't show up for 2 of the games either, bashed your teammates on stream who played without their captain and was rude to Villiams after he informed you that you cannot participate in RF3 because of these actions, Villiams being one of the most diplomatic and friendly people in this community. You have no respect for anybody and that was just one of many displays of your arrogance and immaturity over the years.

Regarding the actual topic: I believe the fine is justified but the money should be spread among the rest of the teams.
I would certainly halt and ease up the growing demands that streamers have towards the players, I guess we need some union-type of protection as the game keeps growing. But I would also punish repeated offenders, such as guys with 20+ admin losses on DE. Those I'd ban from all major tournaments for at least a year.

Also another request to give AoEZone users the ability to see the topic even though it's opened by an ignored user. I can't be bothered to scroll through the miles of self-serving wordplay of OP but I am interested in this incident.

Can you list all the other 100 tourneys ive been in and always followed the rules instead of a small community tournament i participted in for fun and try to bring some attention to it? In rage forest 2 i was busy in real life with a lot of things and i didnt mean to not show for the draft.
Thats why i was kinda surprised i was blocked from the bigger event

 

[vince]

Also another request to give AoEZone users the ability to see the topic even though it's opened by an ignored user. I can't be bothered to scroll through the miles of self-serving wordplay of OP

11111111111

 

[IYIyTh]

Also another request to give AoEZone users the ability to see the topic even though it's opened by an ignored user. I can't be bothered to scroll through the miles of self-serving wordplay of OP but I am interested in this incident.

You can already do that.
All you have to do is not ignore the user simply because you don't like what they say (like an adult.)

I know coming out of the bubble is a difficult option, but it's the easiest one. You don't even have to remove any of the pretentiousness that you so often exhibit towards other peer players and members of the community either.

 

[Aten]

You don't even have to remove any of the pretentiousness that you so often exhibit towards other peer players and members of the community either.

Hmm. Pretentiousness on Aoezone. Methinks Myth doth insult too much.

 

[SlipperySteve]

Can you list all the other 100 tourneys ive been in and always followed the rules instead of a small community tournament i participted in for fun and try to bring some attention to it? In rage forest 2 i was busy in real life with a lot of things and i didnt mean to not show for the draft.
Thats why i was kinda surprised i was blocked from the bigger event

"It was a smaller tournament so I didn't give a ****" I don't wanna be jumping on the mbl hate wagon because I'm a fan but honestly this response is terrible and only makes you look worse.

 

[ninja14]

Can you list all the other 100 tourneys ive been in and always followed the rules instead of a small community tournament i participted in for fun and try to bring some attention to it? In rage forest 2 i was busy in real life with a lot of things and i didnt mean to not show for the draft.
Thats why i was kinda surprised i was blocked from the bigger event

Well then don't sign up or withdraw your sign up if real life is keeping you occupied. There is simply no reason to not show up for drafting your team and then abandoning your selected team.

It's ok if real life didn't allow you but then act accordingly to not waste other people's time and effort. Show the respect you want to be shown to you.

 

[_Ra_]

We put a lot of demands on players in tournaments. I definitely understand not always being able to meet the expectation as a player. It's not as easy as most of you think.

But I do understand aoe is in a different and more professional space now

 

[paradox303]

We put a lot of demands on players in tournaments. I definitely understand not always being able to meet the expectation as a player. It's not as easy as most of you think.

But I do understand aoe is in a different and more professional space now

This may be true to some extent in some tournaments, but when a lot players struggle to do the absolute bare minimum... then of course there are going to be problems when we ask players to do more. So many players are incapable of:

1. Can't schedule properly "hey, when can u play"
2. Take multiple days to respond to DMs
3. Go on vacation in the middle of a tournament
4. Can't rename recorded games
5. Don't know how to spoiler results on Discord
6. Don't follow streaming requirements

This is just a small list which I'm sure others could add to.

 

[Xellos]

This may be true to some extent in some tournaments, but when a lot players struggle to do the absolute bare minimum... then of course there are going to be problems when we ask players to do more. So many players are incapable of:

1. Can't schedule properly "hey, when can u play"
2. Take multiple days to respond to DMs
3. Go on vacation in the middle of a tournament
4. Can't rename recorded games
5. Don't know how to spoiler results on Discord
6. Don't follow streaming requirements

This is just a small list which I'm sure others could add to.

Not mentioning "don't read the handbook"? Who are you and what did you do with paradox?!

 

[dave_hun]

Im not trying to be unprofesional or disrespectful. Outside AoE I have a real life, full time job, and full busy schedules with work. I often work overtime from 8 in the morning to 7-8 in the evening. In rms i just completely forgot to send the recs after the game and its fine I deserve that 3%.

Most aoe players have full time jobs and a real life outside the community, it's a shocker I know.

Accepting responsibility and adhering to the rules of a tournament are the bare minimum a player should be doing, please don't act like these things are some act of generosity towards the hosts.

 

[Halleju]

As always the answer is somewhere in the middle. The players can stay for 5 minutes more or don't play the last game at all if you might need to got somewhere in the near future. That's why you can have up to 5 players in a team.

Admins have to be more clear what punishment awaits for certain behaviour. It's clear that you can't predict them all, but something so trivial as not attending post match interview should be addressed.

Holding the 300$ for future events instead of redistributing it to the other teams seems like a very selfish act. Especially from a host, who sets up daily goals to cover every € and every cent he spent on this event, but not mentioning the thousands of dollars subs and donations which most of them are for this exact reason in the first place.

 

[_MbL_]

Most aoe players have full time jobs and a real life outside the community, it's a shocker I know.

Accepting responsibility and adhering to the rules of a tournament are the bare minimum a player should be doing, please don't act like these things are some act of generosity towards the hosts.

Who are you?

 

[MrIster24]

Who are you?

dave_hun

 

[paradox303]

Amazing self control at keeping it respectful. gg ez.

 

[_MbL_]

Amazing self control at keeping it respectful. gg ez.

I havent been disrespectful, yet