3v3 Improvement Cup

UnknownEmpathy_

Active Member
Aug 12, 2016
259
114
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#1

Tired of being 1600-2200, because there are no tournaments for you? This will change now.


The Improvement-Cup will give you the opportunity to participate with your friends/mates in two great tournaments, with a realistic chance to win it. The prize for the 4v4 winner-team will be Nicov giving you coaching sessions. The prize for the 3v3 winner team will be Tatoh giving you coaching sessions.
The coaching sessions will include 1v1 and teamgame coaching sessions. Each will get at least 1 hour individual 1v1 coaching+teamgame coaching.

Both tournaments will have a skill-cap to make sure that each team has a realistic chance to win.

For the 3v3 Event the skill-cap will be 5550(3x1850 for example).
We will take the average of your highest and current rating (wheter it is 1v1 or tg Rating).
If you abuse this rule (by lowering your current Rating in a visible way) your whole Team will be banned from the tournament and future tournaments as well.
Players and teams are responsible themselves to check out opponent teams.-->If you see that someone abuses this rule(by lowering there current Rating in a visible way) report him.
Players who are above 2250 voobly are not allowed to participate in the tournaments.

Signups are open from 18th December until 1st January.
The Tournament will start on the 2nd January.
For the group stage the teams will have 3 weeks time to play there 3 group stage matches.
-->more then enough time to find the time to schedule and play those group stage matches. :smile:
For each knockout round the Teams will have 1 week time to schedule and Play there match.

1. General Rules:
-make sure you have time to participate in a Tournament which will last presumably two months
-treat your opponents with respect
-we will use the following bugged map Rules to call an admin Restart:
--> If less than 6 tiles of a Players main gold are accessible on one side or less than 4 tiles of a Players specific extra golds
(Extra golds that don’t belong to a particular player are excluded)
-->If less than 4 tiles of a players Stone are accessible on one side
(Extra stones that don’t belong to a particular player are excluded)
-->If less than 4 tiles of player-specific forage bushes are accessible on one side
(Extra forage bushes that don’t belong to a particular player are excluded) -->Any of the starting animals are trapped or in any way inaccessible
-on non tc starts no laming until Minute 5(dont kill vills before min 5)
-only players who hit imp are allowed to start slinging
-during the Group stage one Restart per Team
-during the knockout stages two Restarts per Team

2. Civ Draft:
Instead of spending a lot of time with drafting, you will just pick the groups turn based. You will pick 4 groups per match=16civs for 4 Maps per match.
You can freely choose the civs over all four maps. You dont have to use one civ group for one map. There will be 4 civs left (3 civs for 4 Maps=12). You choose freely which civs you wont use.
The lower ranked team picks first.
(higher Seed picks in the knockout stage first/in Group stage the Teams with the lower total teamrate):

1548930564319.png


3. 3v3 group stage
(this applies for 16 participating teams)
-there will be four groups with 4 teams in each group
-three teams will advance to the knockout stage-->first and second place will continue in the WB
-->thrid placed Team will continue in the LB

3.1 Process during the Group stage:

Map 1 Dry_Arab_Fixed Positions (u can chose if you want to be pocket or flank with the colors)

Map 2 HM looser of Map 1

Map 3 HM winner of Map 1

Map 4 Decentring 1.1 Civs: Chinese, Malians, Maya, Indians, Portuguese, Persians

Map 5 SY_Raft

3.2 Homemaps for the group stage:
BF
Panem_v2
Reg. Fortress
SY_MFOPlateau_v2
SY_Sahara
CoT_Desert

4. WB Bo7 quarterfinal

Map 1 Ghostlake Civs: Maya, Franks, Chinese, Portuguese, Magyar

Map 2 SY_Hideout

Map 3 Mirage 1.1

Map 4 HM of the team which is currently behind

Map 5 HM of the other team

Map 6 SY_MFOPlateau_v2

Map 7 Homeland_v4 Civs: Celts, Mongols, Ethiopians, Slavs,


5. LB Bo7 quarterfinal

same settings

Homemaps for 4.+5.
[email protected] 1.1
SYNC_JDGrossrox
SY_Seize:The_Hump
Panem-v2
SY_Hippo's Belly
Ontario_v4

6. WB Bo7 semifinal

Map 1 Dry_Arab_Fixed Positions

Map 2 Reg. Fortress Civs: Vikings, Celts, Slavs, Japanese, Saracene, Britons

Map 3 Decentring Civs: Malians, Chinese, Maya, Mongol, Italians,

Map 4 HM of the team which is currently behind

Map 5 HM of the other team

Map 6 SY_Seize_The_Hump

Map 7 Ontario_v4 Civs: Team Random

6.1 Homemaps:
Scandinavia
Mongolia
Land Nomad
Palisade Arena
ECL Arabia King of the Hill
SY_Desertfox

7. LB Bo7 semifinal

Map 1 Dry_Arab_Fixed Positions Civs: Berber, Indians, Persians, Atztec, Ethiopians

Map 2 Land Nomad Civs: Persians, Chinese, Malians, Maya,

Map 3 SYNC_Yucatan

Map 4 HM of the team which is currently behind

Map5 Hm of the other team

Map 6 SY_Seize_The_Hump

Map 7 Arena King of the Hill Civs: Slavs, Malians, Celts, Mongols

7.1 Homemaps
SYNC_Valley
SYNC_ChaosPit
SYNC_Rooster
SY_Sahara
SY_MFOWoogy
Coastal

7.2 LB Bo7 Semifinal two

Map1 SY_Sahara

Map 2 SYNC_JDGrossrox

Map 3 Bedouins Civs: Goth, Vietnamese, Saracene

Map 4 Dry_Arab Fixed Positions

Map 5 Hideout Civs: Slavs, Celts, Mongols

Map 6 Coastal Civs: Vikings, Portuguese, Italians

Map 7 Panem

8. WB finale Bo9

Map 1 Dry_Arab_Fixed Positions

Map 2 Reg. Fortress Civs: Celts, Spanish, Maya, Chinese

Map 3 SY_Seize_The_Hump Civs: Magyar, Mongol, Portuguese, Ethiopians

Map 4 SY_JDGrossrox Civs: Franks, Italians, Japanese, Malay, Vikings

Map 5 Panem v2 Civs: Chinese, Japanese, Malians, Indians

Map 6 CoT_Desert

Map 7 SYNC_Valley

Map 8 SYNC_ChaosPit

Map 9 SYNC_Rooster


9. LB finale Bo7

Map 1 Mirage 1.1 Civs: Huns, Magyar Ethiopians, Berbers, Mongols

Map 2 HM loser of Map 1

Map 3 HM winner of Map 1

Map 4 SYNC_JDGrossrox

Map 5 SY_MFOPlateau_v2

Map 6 SYNC_Valley Civs: Inca, Atztec, Celts, Franks, Malay, Vietnamese

Map 7 Dry_Arab_Fixed Positions Civs: Huns, Persians, Burmese, Malay

9.1 Homemaps:
CoT_Desert
Palisade Arena
Reg. Fortress
Bedouins
Panem_v2
Mongolia

10. Grand Final Bo9

Map 1 Dry_Arab-Fixed Positions Civs: Inka, Maya, Atztec

Map 2 Decentring Civs: Chinese, Maya, Persians, Malians

Map 3 SY_Seize_The_Hump

Map 4 Palisade Arena

Map 5 Panem_v2

Map 6 SYNC_JDGrossrox

Map 7 SY_Hippos Belly

Map 8 Ontario_v4 Civs: Italians, Portuguese, Malay, Berbers, Mongols, Britons

Map 9 Arena King of the Hill Civs: Free Pick


This is a non open stream tournaments. Casters/Streamers so far are Nicov and Tatoh.

Enjoy

Sign up link:

https://www.aoezone.net/threads/3v3-improvement-cup-sign-up.150135/
 

Attachments

Last edited:

Australiarobo

Administrator
Staff member
Bronze Supporter
Dec 12, 2011
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#3
For the 4v4 Event the skill-cap will be 7400(4x1850 for example).
I assume this should just be 3X1850 = 5550.

Your highest Rating counts (wheter it is 1v1 or tg Rating).
Is that highest current rating, or highest achieved rating?

-make sure you have time to participate in a Tournament which will last presumably two months
Which 2 months is this? There are no dates written anywhere. a 3 week group stage + 7 week double elim stage is already 2.5 months, plus how ever long qualification is.

-we will use the Standard bugged map Rules
What are those? Most tournaments have slightly different rules.

-on non tc starts no laming until Minute 5
How do you define laming?

Instead of spending a lot of time with drafting, you will just pick turn based (higher Seed picks in the knockout stage first/in Group stage the Teams with the lower total teamrate)the following civ groups:

Drafting takes longer if you don't use captains mode as there is no time limit, so teams can spend 5 minutes choosing a civ, instead of being forced to pick within 30 seconds.

If the draft order is a,b,a,b,a,b, being team b is superior as every single one of your civ picks can be a counter pick, and as there is no rule specifying civ picks are global picks, there is 0 advantage to be first.

Must all of your civs be from a single group, or do you take 1 civ from each group? It is not clear what you mean.

Is there a draft for each game, or is it one draft at the start and you are then free to hidden pick civs for each game?

Also please format the tables more clearly, it is not easy to read which civs are in which group.
 
Mar 31, 2018
27
45
18
#7
I thought the tower rush+sling build order was common knowledge. :unsure:
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand trush. The strategy is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of military strategy most of the placements will go over a typical player's head. There's also Tatoh's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these towers, to realise that they're not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike trush truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Tatoh's existential catchphrase "Vipi, man, Vipi!," which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Tatoh's genius wit unfolds itself on their computer screens. What fools.. how I pity them.
 

UnknownEmpathy_

Active Member
Aug 12, 2016
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114
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#9
Hi Roechelrochen. :smile: I tried that, but then i get this message-->

Sorry! You must have at least 10 posts to post link. Your curent posts count is 4.

Also kann ich das gerade leider nicht tun :frown:
^^
 

DenmarkChrazini

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Dec 31, 2013
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#10
You should add a link to the sign-up page, so it's easier to navigate (now answer that someone already said this, and you just increased your post count by one more, cheating the system baby).
 

Brazilandreskbr

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#13
To be honest, I don't get the skill cap the way it's done. Many 2k players have reached ratings close to 2k2, 1600s almost 1800 highest ratings and so on. The 1850 skill cap is most likely an average of 1700 in terms of real level. If I were a player whose highest rating is 2150+, I'd hardly play the tournament just because of not being able to get two partners. To avoid too strong teams, I'd simply ban more than one 2k(highest rating) per team and set a minimum of one player below 1800 (average between current rating and highest; admins are allowed to ban teams/players for rating manipulation).

Another thing to point out is how some rules are not clear enough. Robo raised very legit questions, showed issues regarding the civilization picking and got no answer. If this is a serious tournament, you should fix the problems as soon as possible or delay the tournament for a few weeks until all is solved.
 

UnknownEmpathy_

Active Member
Aug 12, 2016
259
114
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#14
Hello Andres,

Many 2k players have reached ratings close to 2k2, 1600s almost 1800 highest ratings and so on. The 1850 skill cap is most likely an average of 1700 in terms of real level

-->tbh i know that Problem applies to many Players, but that you reached a certain Level just means that this is your potential Level you can reach.

and i have no interest in limiting Teams how they want to Approach there Team and how many 2ks are in it.

Another thing to point out is how some rules are not clear enough. Robo raised very legit questions, showed issues regarding the civilization picking and got no answer
-->This one is simply not true. I am in contact with Robo and i fixed all the issues in the text. :smile: And i appreciate every tip i can get to improve the Tournament.

If this is a serious tournament, you should fix the problems as soon as possible
-->I am already working on that. :smile:

or delay the tournament for a few weeks until all is solved
-->This one i dont get. Why should i delay a Tournament for small issues several weeks??
 

GermanyKing_Marv

Longswordman
May 27, 2016
563
597
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Germany
#15
i also think that the skill cap is not optimal as highest rating achieved doesnt show your skill potential.

Just take a look at my account. My highest rating was 2091 i reached that in may. But since then i never was even close to this again because i tried other maps, also i took a break during the summer and after that i am mostly rated between 1900 - 2000. But then i play most of the time 1v1 arena. My skills on other maps are defenitly lower than this. The tournament include a lot of maps who are rarely played, not even known by most of the players you adress with your tournament and for practice there is basically no time because you start right after new year and over christmas nobody will do real practice.

So basically for me it doesnt make any sense to form a team and sign up because my rating block me from getting a team with any chances.

I think you should use current highest rating for your skill cap. I know there is then a possibility to abuse it by losing games on purpose but well if you have the suspicion you can review their accounts.
 

UnknownEmpathy_

Active Member
Aug 12, 2016
259
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#16
I think you should use current highest rating for your skill cap. I know there is then a possibility to abuse it by losing games on purpose but well if you have the suspicion you can review their accounts.

-->well that is the issue. The easiest thing to check are the highest ratings of the Players. If i take current Rating, it can get abused and in the 4v4 Event are possibly 64 Players or more + the 3v3 Event.

And you can still form a Team with decent Teammates and enjoy the Tournament with it Settings.
 

GermanyKing_Marv

Longswordman
May 27, 2016
563
597
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Germany
#17
I think you should use current highest rating for your skill cap. I know there is then a possibility to abuse it by losing games on purpose but well if you have the suspicion you can review their accounts.

-->well that is the issue. The easiest thing to check are the highest ratings of the Players. If i take current Rating, it can get abused and in the 4v4 Event are possibly 64 Players or more + the 3v3 Event.

And you can still form a Team with decent Teammates and enjoy the Tournament with it Settings.

i dont think you suspect 64 players of cheating as the normal player is fair.

and not eally 5500 - 2091 = 3409 /2 = 1700
so i form a team with 2 1700 while optimal for me would be 2 around 1830 .. so this is quite a difference.
 

Brazilandreskbr

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#18
Empathy, by current skill cap it's already impossible to get two 2ks for one team, as there would be only 1550 rating left to fill and everyone's highest rating is at least 1600. My approach would make it easier for potential players- like me- to get a team, but avoid them being too strong(this is the only reason I see to set the skill cap).

Also, if you want to go for any approach using current ratings, just put it in the rules that's players duty to check their opponents accounts and report admins if they think the ratings are suspicious. That way, admins would only have to check few players instead of all of them.
 
May 7, 2014
71
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New Zealand
#19
Skill cap is too low. You give an example of 3x1850 but any real 1800 will have a higher peak than their average which basically means you can't actually get a real team of 3 1800s. You advertise the tourney for 1600-2200 in the opening line when under your own rules a 2200 will have to team with 2 players whose peaks are 1650. No real 1600 will have a peak at 1650, only people who actually struggle to maintain 1600 will do so.
 

Finlandbuhanisson

Longswordman
May 29, 2015
349
880
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#20
Whether or not the skill cap is too low depends on who the tournament is really targeted to. You cant really have a tournament where ppl from 1600-2200 would have equal chances, anyway. If the idea is its mainly for 1600-1700-ish players with a few higher rated guys here and there, 5500 should work. But obviously you wont rly have those 1800 rr teams then.
 

AustraliaChriSt

Known Member
Dec 23, 2010
409
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#21
Maybe split it by ratings (have two divisions), like 1500 to 1799 and 1800 to 2000. I know we aussies would love to participate, but our team is essentially 4-5 1900s. Not good enough for major tournaments yet, and technically too high for this tournament.
 
Likes: Empathy_

UnknownEmpathy_

Active Member
Aug 12, 2016
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#22
Hello guys, thanks for your Feedback so far. I changed the skill-cap rule now to:
We will take the average of your highest and current rating (wheter it is 1v1 or tg Rating).
If you abuse this rule (by lowering your current Rating in a visible way) your whole Team will be banned from the tournament and future tournaments as well.
Players and teams are responsible themselves to check out opponent teams.-->If you see that someone abuses this rule(by lowering there current Rating in a visible way) report him.
Players who are above 2250 voobly are not allowed to participate in the tournaments.

Whether or not the skill cap is too low depends on who the tournament is really targeted to. You cant really have a tournament where ppl from 1600-2200 would have equal chances, anyway
The aims of this tournament are:
1.Give people a chance to participate in a Tournament, where they have a Chance to win and it is not only for high-rated players above 2k3+
2. I want to have equally strong Teams as close as possible, which means there is no way i allow three 2k2s to Team and then to face three 1600. This is more about finding mixed Teams who are equally strong
-->Problem with this: I have no clue how many active 1600s, 1700s, 1800s, 1900s, 2000s are here in this community, which makes it impossible for me to give the perfect Rating maximum and minimum for a team-->that is why
3. These two tournaments are a test for me to see, how many People are interested in such tournaments and how many teams are getting together.-->I hope to find 16 teams for both tournaments and for this reason i try to make a skill cap which applies to as many people as possible
4. I hope that the casters will enjoy the Tournament. That they can grow there communities with it and that the money they get(i pay them for the streaming) motivates them to Keep staying in aoe and to Keep going.That is why i hope Slam and Riut will join the tournament as streamers as well.
5. Most important :P I want to enjoy my own tournaments and i want the People who participate in it enjoy it. :smile:

Maybe split it by ratings (have two divisions), like 1500 to 1799 and 1800 to 2000.
That is a great idea. Problem with this is: i have no clue how many teams i get together for the tournaments. So i cant do any splits now.

I know we aussies would love to participate, but our team is essentially 4-5 1900s. Not good enough for major tournaments yet, and technically too high for this tournament.
Well i hope the adaptations will help you now. :smile: And i know u also have some 1700s in the aussie community. :wink:
 

Brazilandreskbr

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#23
Empathy, very nice changes, even though I think 5700 would be a more appropriate skill cap(the tournament is set for players in the 1600 - 2200 range, 1900 would be the average, so 3 * 1900 = 5700). Either way, I am willing to participate, the only problem is that my friends and I exceed the rating cap by 3 points. I'd like to know if it's possible for my team - and others in same situation - to be allowed in, as a few points(let's say not more than 20) don't mean anything in terms of practical skill.
 

GermanyKing_Marv

Longswordman
May 27, 2016
563
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Germany
#24
Empathy, very nice changes, even though I think 5700 would be a more appropriate skill cap(the tournament is set for players in the 1600 - 2200 range, 1900 would be the average, so 3 * 1900 = 5700). Either way, I am willing to participate, the only problem is that my friends and I exceed the rating cap by 3 points. I'd like to know if it's possible for my team - and others in same situation - to be allowed in, as a few points(let's say not more than 20) don't mean anything in terms of practical skill.
You mean the middle .. it’s not the Average :D

Same would be like if you check 1600 - 2600 and then you say the average is 2100 which is definitely not true.
 

UnknownEmpathy_

Active Member
Aug 12, 2016
259
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#25
Either way, I am willing to participate, the only problem is that my friends and I exceed the rating cap by 3 points. I'd like to know if it's possible for my team - and others in same situation - to be allowed in

You can sign up and i will check your voobly profiles then. And also i have to wait and see how many other Teams join and what there skill-cap is. If most of the Teams who will join are above 5300 Points, it will be fine.
I want to avoid that teams who will (for example) join with a total Rating of 5200 feel that they have no chances or feel excluded.

But people please dont forget there is also a 4v4 Event with an even bigger variety of maps. :smile:
 
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