For those who are still confused about the exact mechanics of the trade exploit, MbL drew this clear and concise diagram on stream that should explain everything:
Now I understand it perfectly. Thanks youFor those who are still confused about the exact mechanics of the trade exploit, MbL drew this clear and concise diagram on stream that should explain everything:
View attachment 176736
People mocked Leonardo da Vinci as well...For those who are still confused about the exact mechanics of the trade exploit, MbL drew this clear and concise diagram on stream that should explain everything:
View attachment 176736
I think you get even more confused after seeing that paint 11
The idea behind this new DE feature was to be noob-friendly for players who forget to delete the first market in the town (not only noobs but also top players forget it sometimes). If it happens and your trade is horrible its your own silly mistake, we don't need a whole new feature just to save you. Leave alone if such feature is gonna be abused and exploited in every showmatch you play and probably in tournaments too.
"your team can do it too". Alright. If we are going that way then let's keep boar laming allowed.
Thats probly not fully true, i think their main idea was to solve out the tradecog issue: on full watermaps you barely ever see tradecogs, because they will always go for the smallest distance resulting in very short traderoutes, if you have docks all around your island.
Maybe they could allow you to place markets on the shore line that can only build trade cogs.Thats probly not fully true, i think their main idea was to solve out the tradecog issue: on full watermaps you barely ever see tradecogs, because they will always go for the smallest distance resulting in very short traderoutes, if you have docks all around your island.
And I forgot to say: you dont even need to micro those tradecarts at the start. You just set a gather point on the ally market next to yours.
Then it could be fixed by allowing that feature only for trade cogs and not the carts I guess?
Forgive me if I am wrong or am not understanding your point, but how is this "market glitch" (which is actually just an AI/pathfinding improvement from AoC) somehow an equivalency to boar laming? Isn't the inherent problem with allowing boar laming is the RNG element of boar spawns/position, which is then made worse in DE since it is way easier to lame than to defend the lame.I think you get even more confused after seeing that paint 11
The idea behind this new DE feature was to be noob-friendly for players who forget to delete the first market in the town (not only noobs but also top players forget it sometimes). If it happens and your trade is horrible its your own silly mistake, we don't need a whole new feature just to save you. Leave alone if such feature is gonna be abused and exploited in every showmatch you play and probably in tournaments too.
"your team can do it too". Alright. If we are going that way then let's keep boar laming allowed.
That still makes your trade kick in like 2 Minutes earier and once you have your market on both sides its so easy to just hop over there and click some empty ones back to your allies market withtout anyone noticing.In the show match between Secret and aM, Secret were simply just avoiding the first trip which doesn't produce any gold
Granted, but the only way to fix this is if they revert the pathfinding back to the way it was which i really, really doubt. If you say they cannot build markets on the same side I would just build them in the centre of my pocket's base which would still result in a faster payoff than putting them on the opposite corner to where you want to trade to.That still makes your trade kick in like 2 Minutes earier and once you have your market on both sides its so easy to just hop over there and click some empty ones back to your allies market withtout anyone noticing.
Also i am not so sure about the impossibility of abusing this in post imp. The top players arent used to that kind of stuff atm but once you practice it its just a few clicks that each give you 100+ extra gold.
I wouldnt be surprised if Viper and other very fast players were able to use this effectively.
Right now there is just some kind of gentlemens agreement to not micro the trade carts but we already see them making markets on both sides.
At the risk of repeating myself..........Granted, but the only way to fix this is if they revert the pathfinding back to the way it was which i really, really doubt. If you say they cannot build markets on the same side I would just build them in the centre of my pocket's base which would still result in a faster payoff than putting them on the opposite corner to where you want to trade to.
Forgive me if I am wrong or am not understanding your point, but how is this "market glitch" (which is actually just an AI/pathfinding improvement from AoC) somehow an equivalency to boar laming? Isn't the inherent problem with allowing boar laming is the RNG element of boar spawns/position, which is then made worse in DE since it is way easier to lame than to defend the lame.
Also @HeavenlyChorus announced a 3V3 tournament today where the "market glitch" is banned, what exactly is the definition of this glitch? Per this thread and the video Zbyszek made the glitch would be defined as if you could micro your trade carts forever you could completely negate the trip where gold isn't produced, however any player knows in imperial you cannot simply just sit there and micro carts especially when you have 50,60+ carts and you have to micro and macro everywhere else. In the show match between Secret and aM, Secret were simply just avoiding the first trip which doesn't produce any gold, but after the cart completes its trip with the first shipment of gold trade begins to run as it previously did in AoC.
Agree with pretty much all your points, however it is very important to note that Zbyszek's video hightlighing the extreme potential to exploit the different unit behaviour is very different to what was being done in the show matchI agree that boar laming and this are not entirely analogous things. However...
As it was not written in any release or update notes as a new feature, and would not occur without a very specific, player-made setup, I think it's easy to infer that it was an unintended side effect of a different change. You're right that on a technical note, that doesn't make it a 'glitch' - but the thread title is correct, as that makes it literally an exploit: the use of something in a manner not intended by the game designers.
One could say that if one is going to cry foul about differences in mapgen RNG for boars, one should definitely be able to cry foul about use of unintentional game exploits. They're not the same, yes - but frankly, intentional use of exploits is far more frowned upon in most games than RNG imbalance, which is not an intentional action by players (and not even something they could affect).
Moreover, a lot of people's arguments against boar laming isn't just about "fairness". It's frequently said that boar laming is against "the spirit of the game/gentlemanly conduct". Exploit use would absolutely be something that some folks considered to be against such spirit/conduct.
You yourself note that this changes the first trip substantially from intended behavior so as to change the amount of resources gained. To take this to an extreme to demonstrate a point about the weakness of this argument - by that logic, it's okay if you use a cheat code just once in the game. After all, it only happens once, and after that, the game continues as usual.
It also applies in a directly analogous way to boar laming. Okay, someone lames one of your boar, but after that, the game continues as usual with both players making units, building buildings, and clicking up to Feudal.
For what it's worth, I'm not actually necessarily for or against permitting the use of this exploit. I do think it's probably worth clarifying in the rules to avoid post-tournament drama. Just like with boar laming. That way, everyone knows up front, and can plan their actions accordingly.
As it was not written in any release or update notes as a new feature,
I have to disagree. I could even see very fast top players abuse this in a boomed out post imp scenario if they practiced it.The idea of one player being manually microing each trade cart to redrop the gold on the closest market seems unrealistic in a real team game.
I think that was an update from the behaviour where the trade would choose the market that is closest to 100 tiles away which was explained in an SOTL video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoMtPP0Xer0 )GAMEPLAY
- Trade units will now prioritize the Market that is furthest away for trading.
Just change it to generate gold both ways (way to ally market and way back) and then halve the gold amount = same gold overall. Problem solved.
Everything is technically possible, it's a videogame, you just have to give it the instruction. For instance an eagle could fly above any building in your base and give you gold.Is that technically possible though? Like, your cart deposits gold on your ally's market and you get the gold?