well, seed one has the easiest way to the final, that's why it matters and getting into the final will mean you almost certain will get top seedings next edition
Not if viper is seed 8 and you have to face him in quarterfinal.
well, seed one has the easiest way to the final, that's why it matters and getting into the final will mean you almost certain will get top seedings next edition
yes, it seems that is the difference, but, as stated in the first post on this seeding problem: why pretend to be otherwise? why introduce seeding rules you are not gonna respect?You seem to want seeding to be something that allows players to fight for their seed and increase their winning chances. I (and seemingly the rest in here) want seeding to reflect the actual strength.
Viper deserves the #1 seed for one simple reason: he is by far the best player atm and backs it up by winning every single meaningful game he plays in
Hey, I haven't read everything so I guess the good people before me already addressed the issue. The handbook said the seeding would be a combination of Elo reached, tournament performance and games played prior to the deadline. At no point did it specify how impactful each of these factors would be.
With that in mind, when Memb showed the seeding on stream, that is exactly what happened: The seeding was done the way it was supposed to be done according to the handbook. As far as I know the games played could have penalized players who had not reached the threshold of 15 games on KotD2 Arabia but to my knowledge that did not happen to anyone. Everything else was accounted for.
I think he made a good point, the rule should be clear priori to seeding (for example, how you calculate the tournament rating? Which ones do not account? By doing so allow players to "calculate" their best "preparation" paths. Also if they know the 1v1 rating is not only for entry ticket, they would be more careful in playing "practice" games).
Anyway, it's ok because not too many players complain this.
Overall, sponsors can do whatever they want if it is not too crazy, the players and community need tournaments to keep AOE alive.
I got your point. But it might not be good to continue this topic. From what I guess, until the last two days Memb did not even know which tournaments will be included in his calculation. That's fine because this is his own tournament, no need to overact especially the players and the fans seem to be quite enjoyed this event.Handbook did NOT say anything about previous tournaments, that is one of the issues, you can see a copy paste from the handbook in my first post; Memb showing the seedings on stream means nothing, calculation were already done to get the desired result, he added as much points as he needed from whatever tournaments were convenient, pretending to make it fair or transparent is an insult..
memb did not know, because he is not the math type LUL ; he couldn't foresee the "flaw" that viper and lyerey won't be number 1 and 2; that is why the" last minute" decisions just to tip the scale...it was never about results from previous tournaments, until they were needed..one way or anotherI got your point. But it might not be good to continue this topic. From what I guess, until the last two days Memb did not even know which tournaments will be included in his calculation. That's fine because this is his own tournament, no need to overact especially the players and the fans seem to be quite enjoyed this event.
Dusk2Dawn said:/.../
I am flattered man! )man i want YOU as my lawyer
truly you opened my eyes and make great arguments, also true is that we casters and viewers want a viper vs larry final, i accept that, u may want to accept it too and stop wasting time with this hypocritical issue
I read everything in here and all I gotta say is this:
If none of the players has come forth to complain about the seeding, than why should you as a mere viewer? If you dont like how it's done, go host your own tournament, then you can do everything exactly as you want it.
PS. By the way, I also knew that performances in past tournament would be taken into account. Why does (nearly) everyone know that if it isn't stated in the Handbook?
...why not write it in the handbook from the start if it's a sure thing?
Players not complaining about it means nothing, it doesn't make it any better or worse. Most players indeed do not read simple rules of small tournaments, let alone a handbook. That doesn't invalidate in any way the seeding flaws brought forward on this thread.
I think @Dusk2Dawn definitely has a point.
Viper and Lierrey's seedings do seem to have been somewhat artificially inflated by a somewhat arbitrary rule to make sure they get seedings 1 and 2 respectively.
The reason no one is complaining? Because almost everyone agrees they are indeed the 2 best players in the tournament and more accurate seedings make for better tournaments.
Now this all goes back to the same discussion we have had here several times before some major tournaments:
- Do we really want handbooks that cover every possible loophole known to man? Well, then let's spend a couple of thousand of dollars and hire a few lawyers only to have them produce a 1000 page document that virtually no one will ever read.
- Or perhaps, in such a small community where everyone knows everyone, could we maybe just simply trust the people we all know to be credible and responsible and accept some common sense bending of the rules when everyone agrees it's all for the best?
In the current state of affairs, I tend to prefer the 2nd option.
And I'm very impressed with Chrazinni's work so far! Excellent administrating skills shown so far!
of course : writing it in a manual that viper will have +300 points, i could've easily said a couple of minutes later what elo must middle players achieve to balance that ...and it would've been ridiculous amountWould having written it in the manual that tournaments x, y and z, would be taken into account have made a difference? It's not like anyone can take a time machine and change those tournaments.
You are still wrong about that one though. Having someone set as #1 (and potentially #2, #3...) because they were better in previous tournaments is absolutely fair (ignoring the fact that it was not mentioned in the rules for a second) and e.g. no physical sport would ever rate some practice matches higher than previous tournament results.I am trying to say that without reaching 2900 elo, it was impossible for anyone to outseed viper or even lierey and that is not fair
Oh, I agree with that for sure. I've always thought the top players in this community are extremely quiet when it comes to voicing their complaints publicly, but it might be mostly due to english not being their native language or that you will have people replying you with the typical "don't like it, don't play it" or "it's their tournament and they can do whatever they want" kind of stuff.You make some excellent points, thanks for the post.
Allow me to disagree with the quoted paragraph though.
Pro players seem to think it's somehow an honorable thing to not complain about stuff they don't agree with. I wish they would stop thinking like this.
I'm sure Admins would have loved to read your post BEFORE the tournament started.
Feedback from Pros is the best possible feedback for an Admin.
So when you see a problem with rules/settings/balance please DO complain!
In a respectful manner of course, but do let people know your opinion!
You are still wrong about that one though. Having someone set as #1 (and potentially #2, #3...) because they were better in previous tournaments is absolutely fair (ignoring the fact that it was not mentioned in the rules for a second) and e.g. no physical sport would ever rate some practice matches higher than previous tournament results.
That what I said in previous rounds, Memb needs some flexibility in seeding which is totally fine. Putting these as a clear rule decreases the power of the admin. This is one of the biggest 1v1 event in recent years, if there are more competitive open (not like invitational only) tournaments (in terms of prize pool), we will not care this too much.Oh, I agree with that for sure. I've always thought the top players in this community are extremely quiet when it comes to voicing their complaints publicly, but it might be mostly due to english not being their native language or that you will have people replying you with the typical "don't like it, don't play it" or "it's their tournament and they can do whatever they want" kind of stuff.
It's certainly too late to change anything yet it's still helpful to put it out there for future tournaments to keep all of it in mind. It was also impossible to predict the seeding would turn out to be the way it did until it actually happened though. All I heard about it was from Lierey who was told by Memb that seeding would only be based on ratings and KOTD 1, but it seems other tournaments were added in too.
No I mean it doesn't matter. It is totally fine if there is no way to become #1 seed even with playing a million games in the two weeks and reaching 4k elo. This is not unfair, if someone has deserved this spot with previous tournament performances, in this case by winning almost every tournament in the last year.viper current elo 2500, max elo over 2700 , average a little over 2600 : +200 from kotd1 +50 from esl = a little over 2850 ; player with no wins in kotd1 or first place in esl needs 2900 ; what you talking about?you mean he needs just 2870 wich is totally achievable opposed to 2900?