I think this change makes sense, but it also makes me wonder if maybe it's time to get rid of the hidden aspect for players entirely. As Viper already mentioned on the GL post match talk, you can make pretty good guesses who you'll be playing depending on the server. But this also leads to a pretty big disadvantage: People from Europe will know who they'll be playing if they're playing on the Indian server, as there's only 3 players from Asia (Vinch, ACCM, Yo), but they won't know who they're playing against, as there's a lot more people from Europe.1. Once the bracket was drawn (players already having been provided with their accounts) players were told which 8 players were in the top half/bottom half of the bracket so that they knew who they could practise with.
This was implemented after discussions with the invited players before the event as within teams it was common for this information to be already shared which would disadvantage players who don't have many teammates or are just less involved with practising with the established players. This gave everyone a level playing field and the same information.
I think this change makes sense, but it also makes me wonder if maybe it's time to get rid of the hidden aspect for players entirely. As Viper already mentioned on the GL post match talk, you can make pretty good guesses who you'll be playing depending on the server. But this also leads to a pretty big disadvantage: People from Europe will know who they'll be playing if they're playing on the Indian server, as there's only 3 players from Asia (Vinch, ACCM, Yo), but they won't know who they're playing against, as there's a lot more people from Europe.
To counteract this, the admins will sometimes let players play on a suboptimal server (Jordan vs Mihai was played on East US server).
So the pro's are:
Less of a Viper/Hera effect
Players might get demotivated if they know who they'll play against
Players will draft to their own strengths instead of to their opponents weaknesses
Compared to the cons:
Potentially less competitive if one player knows who they're playing and one doesn't
Sub optimal servers
Unfair to players from smaller regions, who are recognized easier by the server
People are able to have better preparation
Admins can't host the lobbies, it just isn't supported in-game unfortunately. So players were told what server they would be playing on after drafting. So in the case of Viper vs Yo, Viper was pretty certain he was against Yo from the draft alone and the server near on confirmed it in his eyes.Did not dig through the files, but shouldnt it be fairly simple to remove the ping/server listings from the interface for players via a mod? They could be completely in the dark like this and would only "feel" the ping ingame. The admin does host anyway I imagine?
The pros still got their opponents wrong a shocking amountNot much of a "hidden" cup, is it?
70k ppl would seem to think so. What would you have in its place? Some other one-off S-tier that maybe gets 30k viewers?Is all this drama and gimmick worth it to have a big prize pool tournament having random brackets?
The idea might have originally come from wanting to keep Viper hidden, but let's be honest, it's all about viewer interest and participation.I think this change makes sense, but it also makes me wonder if maybe it's time to get rid of the hidden aspect for players entirely. As Viper already mentioned on the GL post match talk, you can make pretty good guesses who you'll be playing depending on the server. But this also leads to a pretty big disadvantage: People from Europe will know who they'll be playing if they're playing on the Indian server, as there's only 3 players from Asia (Vinch, ACCM, Yo), but they won't know who they're playing against, as there's a lot more people from Europe.
To counteract this, the admins will sometimes let players play on a suboptimal server (Jordan vs Mihai was played on East US server).
So the pro's are:
Less of a Viper/Hera effect
Players might get demotivated if they know who they'll play against
Players will draft to their own strengths instead of to their opponents weaknesses
Compared to the cons:
Potentially less competitive if one player knows who they're playing and one doesn't
Sub optimal servers
Unfair to players from smaller regions, who are recognized easier by the server
People are able to have better preparation
Now close your eyes and imagine Daut managing 3 different accounts.I'm sure this would be a headache to implement, but you could set up separate alias accounts for the 16 players for practice, where players use anonymous accounts independent of their hero name to set up practice. I'm envisioning a discord text lobby where "Keebler" can join and see "Oreo" waiting, and they log in under those aoe2 accounts to practice vs each other.
We have top20 players signing up with wrong account-link due to copy-paste, can you imagine the average pro player trying to do opsec? 11Now close your eyes and imagine Daut managing 3 different accounts.
What I suggested a many times but unfortunately don't have the voice to reach the right people. It should honestly be really really easy to implement a "hard code" change to the Server names, and simply rename them to "1", "2", "3", and so on.Did not dig through the files, but shouldnt it be fairly simple to remove the ping/server listings from the interface for players via a mod? They could be completely in the dark like this and would only "feel" the ping ingame. The admin does host anyway I imagine?
Sounds like somehow this will break pathing but OK 11What I suggested a many times but unfortunately don't have the voice to reach the right people. It should honestly be really really easy to implement a "hard code" change to the Server names, and simply rename them to "1", "2", "3", and so on.
Another thing they can do, is also hard code the ping values. I am sure it's a complex calculation to derive the ping numbers for each server, and they might be inclined to not touch it and risk breaking something crucial to the game. However, I don't see how they cannot simply mask the actual ping numbers on the frontend and display a random common number. Seems a relatively straightforward task. Also I think there have to be multiple layers, like the server grabs the actual ping values from the backend, then there is the middleware, a middle layer where I think each individual user's connection to a server plays a role before determining the final ping numbers we see on the user's frontend. I have noticed when my internet connection is bad, or I reconnect/disconnect to the server, all the pings in each server goes red 300+, or sometimes fluctuate. This is another place the Devs can simply use a random mathematical buffer to manipulate the ping, so each player on this patch, will always display some random ping values for each server. This would prevent the risk of Devs needing to hard code pings in various locations and touch different parts of the codebase, like in the Lobby Creation Menu, Finding an unrated Lobby game view, Actual game lobbies, multiplayer menu, etc; and only touch the middle layer, which can be easily reversed in no time!
The Devs pushed out an entire patch for Hidden Cup players, the one with good archer pathing and less regrouping. They could very very easily implement the above two things, it wouldn't honestly take them more than 30 minutes to code, test and push this out
And if the Devs wanted to use this same patch for the community, like they did, they can very easily undo the changes in the middle layer, and all would be fine!
I don't think I agree with this idea at all, players deserve to know what server they are playing on so they can plan & play adequately.What I suggested a many times but unfortunately don't have the voice to reach the right people. It should honestly be really really easy to implement a "hard code" change to the Server names, and simply rename them to "1", "2", "3", and so on.
Another thing they can do, is also hard code the ping values. I am sure it's a complex calculation to derive the ping numbers for each server, and they might be inclined to not touch it and risk breaking something crucial to the game. However, I don't see how they cannot simply mask the actual ping numbers on the frontend and display a random common number. Seems a relatively straightforward task. Also I think there have to be multiple layers, like the server grabs the actual ping values from the backend, then there is the middleware, a middle layer where I think each individual user's connection to a server plays a role before determining the final ping numbers we see on the user's frontend. I have noticed when my internet connection is bad, or I reconnect/disconnect to the server, all the pings in each server goes red 300+, or sometimes fluctuate. This is another place the Devs can simply use a random mathematical buffer to manipulate the ping, so each player on this patch, will always display some random ping values for each server. This would prevent the risk of Devs needing to hard code pings in various locations and touch different parts of the codebase, like in the Lobby Creation Menu, Finding an unrated Lobby game view, Actual game lobbies, multiplayer menu, etc; and only touch the middle layer, which can be easily reversed in no time!
The Devs pushed out an entire patch for Hidden Cup players, the one with good archer pathing and less regrouping. They could very very easily implement the above two things, it wouldn't honestly take them more than 30 minutes to code, test and push this out
And if the Devs wanted to use this same patch for the community, like they did, they can very easily undo the changes in the middle layer, and all would be fine!
But somehow it's better to have 2 European players play on an American server, adding +80 ping to both? The sole reason for that action being the very same: to preserve anonymity?I don't think I agree with this idea at all, players deserve to know what server they are playing on so they can plan & play adequately.
There is apparently a large noticeable difference between 40 and 100 ping (I wouldn't know almost every game I play is on 200 ping 11), so if that would affect what strategy or unit choice players go for (eg less micro heavy army/units if they are on 150+ ping) then they should have that information.
Sure, they both have (almost) the same ping to the server and are aware that they are on East US, it is perfectly fair for both.But somehow it's better to have 2 European players play on an American server, adding +80 ping to both? The sole reason for that action being the very same: to preserve anonymity?
Just as it is perfectly fair for them to be on a server with unknown (but similar for both) ping. They are both at the same disadvantage relative to optimal, just as both are at the same disadvantage in a case where their pings are +80.Sure, they both have (almost) the same ping to the server and are aware that they are on East US, it is perfectly fair for both.
We had a total of 5 matches out of 16 that featured 2 players from the same continent, in every other match one player will have a ping advantage of some kind.Just as it is perfectly fair for them to be on a server with unknown (but similar for both) ping. They are both at the same disadvantage relative to optimal, just as both are at the same disadvantage in a case where their pings are +80.
I think you misunderstood my point completely. The players do not know exactly what server they are playing on, but it is the best possible server between the two of them. The point is the server names are renamed to 1, 2, 3, 4, and also the ping displayed next to the server is a random number manipulated differently for each user.I don't think I agree with this idea at all, players deserve to know what server they are playing on so they can plan & play adequately.
There is apparently a large noticeable difference between 40 and 100 ping (I wouldn't know almost every game I play is on 200 ping 11), so if that would affect what strategy or unit choice players go for (eg less micro heavy army/units if they are on 150+ ping) then they should have that information.
I understand completely, but if there isnt a matchup between 2 euros and so Liereyy is playing on India vs accm or east us vs Sebastian presumably they would want to know that they will be having 100-150 ping for these games so that they are aware of any delay they may have when microing.I think you misunderstood my point completely. The players do not know exactly what server they are playing on, but it is the best possible server between the two of them. The point is the server names are renamed to 1, 2, 3, 4, and also the ping displayed next to the server is a random number manipulated differently for each user.
For example, take 2 Europeans, Liereyy vs Daut. Of course they should play on the UKWEST server with minimal ping (<30 for both). As the Admin, you simply tell them to host on server 3 (they don't know what the servers are renamed to), but server 3 is actually UKWEST. Furthermore, with the random number generator, for both players, server 3 may display any random number which can be different for both, So for example, to Liereyy it might show a ping of 50 and to Daut it may show 250.
This adds yet another guessing layer for the players and takes away from the fact that they usually end up immediately knowing their opponents due to the server. Now, Daut is facing a high apm Micro nerd, but he doesn't know its Liereyy and can't tell from the ping number. Due to the random ping, he could think it might be Hera or Hearttt playing from South America (In essence, the ping number gives nothing to the player, he just has to completely depend on the "feel" of the ping in-game and then determine that he must be playing another European, and then he can narrow it down to Liereyy.)
Now because its two Europeans, there's minimal ping so it is known. But think of the various different matchups in regards to different continents of the world. If a European faces an Asian or a South American, since the server name and ping numbers give no information to them, they have no way to narrow down exactly what location their opponent is from (they can tell its not another neighbor, as then they would feel no ping, but thats pretty much it). There's no way Daut can determine he's facing ACCM from Asia or Hera from South America from the in-game ping, because to both of them, he would be in the middle and have the median actual ping of 120-150ish.
I think this is a better approach than having two people from same location play on a bit farther server to have the standard ping of ~100 across each set. Give the players the best servers to play on amongst the two, but hide and randomize the server name and ping so they have to go by the in-game ping to get a feel for who their opponent might and might not be.
Well that begs the question. What is better, making players play on the non-optimal server or players not knowing the server/ping before diving into G1 altogether? It depends on the person you ask tbh 11, but I can say a lot of players are not hugely excited to play on a farther server than absolutely necessary. They've brought it up a few times, and although in terms of the greater picture, yes both players play on an equal standard ping, but it is also a cut throat S tier tournament where they would prefer to play on the optimal low ping server. In their eyes, it's not about "Fairness" rather it's about them sacrificing their absolute best setup for the sake of said fairness.I understand completely, but if there isnt a matchup between 2 euros and so Liereyy is playing on India vs accm or east us vs Sebastian presumably they would want to know that they will be having 100-150 ping for these games so that they are aware of any delay they may have when microing.
If the players don't need to know that they have higher ping, I don't see why the current system of 2 euros playing on east US sometimes would be a problem at all.